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Is America Falling Apart?


Jack Walsh

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
9,341
Wow! Real objective there Jack.
If you want me to state the obvious, that Dems have had plenty opportunities to correct the hideously wide wealth imbalance, so be it, they have, no question, and failed.
But I make no apologies for rating Trump and the current GOP as particularly disgusting.
Even leaving aside their "conservative" lean, they ream the very people who elect them.

The GOP con their core voters with issues that will have little positive impact on their livelihoods, Guns and God.
But the real damage they do to these people (and voters in all states) is their phony war on high tax.
You cannot have a mature discussion in American politics about the wisdom of raising taxes to provide better (but most particularly, fairer) living conditions.
Standing in a district in Alabama with crumbling schools and services and you suggest maybe raising local taxes a bit, and you are dead in the water.
"My communist Democratic rival now wants to turn this patriotic and all American district into Venezuela and send your hard earned tax dollars to Nancy Pelosi to give to her Hollywood pals"
Hopeless
So they vote for some racist scumbag who votes in DC for trillion dollar tax cuts for mega corporations who are already hoarding trillions of dollars in pure cash on their balance sheets, while the dopes he conned into voting for him watch their schools and services crumble further.

So ye, Dems have sure played their part, but the GOP's template is vile and if it continues, the wealth gap is going to get even more obscene.

How can any country make any credible claim of greatness with a falling life expectancy rate in 2018?
In terms of first world countries, it is the class dunce hat for certain.

Leaving war aside, there are a myriad of reasons why a country might have a falling life expectancy, but make no mistake the overriding one is poverty.
Quite simply, very large portions of America's people are poor by almost any definition, and most certainly by comparison to almost any other first world country.
In the GOP those people will never do any better, the GOP believe the wealthy must be allowed almost all the spoils because they drive everything
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,094
Twitter
No
bad medical advice around diet, medicine corrupted by pharma money and a profit led model which is anti lifestyle medicine. cure their obesity rates and life expectancy would go up. not sure what the Trump angle here is, the US went off the rails in the 70's regarding health
Any state that allows TV advertising of medicines is asking for trouble. There isn't much difference other than scale in major US pharma companies and the hucksters who used to travel around the west via mule and waggon selling 'patent Elixir'.

The business model hasn't changed except for the mode of transport.
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,094
Twitter
No
If you want me to state the obvious, that Dems have had plenty opportunities to correct the hideously wide wealth imbalance, so be it, they have, no question, and failed.
But I make no apologies for rating Trump and the current GOP as particularly disgusting.
Even leaving aside their "conservative" lean, they ream the very people who elect them.

The GOP con their core voters with issues that will have little positive impact on their livelihoods, Guns and God.
But the real damage they do to these people (and voters in all states) is their phony war on high tax.
You cannot have a mature discussion in American politics about the wisdom of raising taxes to provide better (but most particularly, fairer) living conditions.
Standing in a district in Alabama with crumbling schools and services and you suggest maybe raising local taxes a bit, and you are dead in the water.
"My communist Democratic rival now wants to turn this patriotic and all American district into Venezuela and send your hard earned tax dollars to Nancy Pelosi to give to her Hollywood pals"
Hopeless
So they vote for some racist scumbag who votes in DC for trillion dollar tax cuts for mega corporations who are already hoarding trillions of dollars in pure cash on their balance sheets, while the dopes he conned into voting for him watch their schools and services crumble further.

So ye, Dems have sure played their part, but the GOP's template is vile and if it continues, the wealth gap is going to get even more obscene.

How can any country make any credible claim of greatness with a falling life expectancy rate in 2018?
In terms of first world countries, it is the class dunce hat for certain.

Leaving war aside, there are a myriad of reasons why a country might have a falling life expectancy, but make no mistake the overriding one is poverty.
Quite simply, very large portions of America's people are poor by almost any definition, and most certainly by comparison to almost any other first world country.
In the GOP those people will never do any better, the GOP believe the wealthy must be allowed almost all the spoils because they drive everything
Agree with much of this. My brother has lived and worked in the States for 30 years. He was absolutely shocked to discover that in Virginia, close enough to the nation's capital, there were kids running around whose families couldn't afford shoes for them.

The gap between the reality of poverty-pockets where the American dream never penetrated and the TV portrayal of the American dream we all saw on their broadcast output when growing up is rather large.
 

Jack Walsh

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
9,341
I have seen these reports over the last few days about the horrible effects of the opioids, gun violence and suicide and the impact they have had on life expectancy in the US. It really is shocking stuff but that said I think the rumours of the demise of the United States are greatly exaggerated. These issues predate Trump and will succeed him too.
Yes it has been going on for decades, and I too expect America to remain an economic powerhouse, which means the chasm between the wealthy and the rest is just going to grow ever wider, because there is no political will to address it.
And the GOP's decades long "tax is a dirty word" election winning strategy is a major contributor.

Look at the countries that are healthiest and live longest, prosperous and economically strong like America, but much more equitable, the primary reason is that they are mature about tax and how tax is properly and sensibly spent.
 

silverharp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
15,815
Any state that allows TV advertising of medicines is asking for trouble. There isn't much difference other than scale in major US pharma companies and the hucksters who used to travel around the west via mule and waggon selling 'patent Elixir'.

The business model hasn't changed except for the mode of transport.
Ture, if you happen to catch a live broadcast of a local US station there is normally an advert starting with “do you suffer from…..”. Medical research is totally corrupted though, Pharma target well know doctors and shower them with “research” money and speaking fees once they tow the party line. Their food industry doesn’t help which basically promotes eating 6 plus times a day. Its relatively simple to “live to 90” if you care but people need the right structures too and they don’t have them in the US, Ireland is only a decade or 2 behind in some ways.
 

silverharp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
15,815
Yes it has been going on for decades, and I too expect America to remain an economic powerhouse, which means the chasm between the wealthy and the rest is just going to grow ever wider, because there is no political will to address it.
And the GOP's decades long "tax is a dirty word" election winning strategy is a major contributor.

Look at the countries that are healthiest and live longest, prosperous and economically strong like America, but much more equitable, the primary reason is that they are mature about tax and how tax is properly and sensibly spent.
A fair amount of cherry picking going on there, living in a wealthy country is a good start, after that its down to things like smoking and diet. Hong Kong for instance have great life expectancy statistics but its not a high tax economy, Spain too even though it is not a well run country. Don’t eat like an American or a lard arse Irish person and you will be grand.
 

Glenshane4

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Messages
9,670
The Americans will probably be able to decide for themselves how their country is governed.
 

Jack Walsh

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
9,341
A fair amount of cherry picking going on there, living in a wealthy country is a good start, after that its down to things like smoking and diet. Hong Kong for instance have great life expectancy statistics but its not a high tax economy, Spain too even though it is not a well run country. Don’t eat like an American or a lard arse Irish person and you will be grand.
Irish life expectancy has increased year on year for decades and is now among the highest in the world.
I am not cherry picking, you are agreeing with me.
My point is that America is a very wealthy country, wealthy countries, as you rightly point out, should have the highest life expectancy, and no way in 2018, should have a declining one.
The reason America has, is primarily due to the hideous wealth imbalance.
All countries have wealth imbalances but none revel in or promote it as much as America does
It is a grotesque imbalance the GOP in particular have absolutely no shame in seeing it continue, and even grow.
 

JimmyFoley

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
9,647
Irish life expectancy has increased year on year for decades and is now among the highest in the world.
I am not cherry picking, you are agreeing with me.
My point is that America is a very wealthy country, wealthy countries, as you rightly point out, should have the highest life expectancy, and no way in 2018, should have a declining one.
The reason America has, is primarily due to the hideous wealth imbalance.
All countries have wealth imbalances but none revel in or promote it as much as America does
It is a grotesque imbalance the GOP in particular have absolutely no shame in seeing it continue, and even grow.
You do know what happens in the US usually happens here later? There's a time lag.

For example, last week it was announced that 2/3 people in NI are overweight or obese. Do you think that won't affect life expectancy in 10 or 15 years' time?
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,032
Actually .... America is eating itself to death.
Probably quite close to the truth, although we are heading in a similar direction. I am currently watching Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam war, in style, quite similar to his series on the Civil War and have just watched the events of 1968 where the anti war protests were at their height and the cities were seeing the race riots. One point he makes is that while there were massive anti war protests and blacks burned city ghettos, the majority of Americans supported both the war and govt, they even elected Nixon. I don't think current divisions are as deep as in the 1960s, never mind 100 years previous.
 

JimmyFoley

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Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
9,647
Probably quite close to the truth, although we are heading in a similar direction. I am currently watching Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam war, in style, quite similar to his series on the Civil War and have just watched the events of 1968 where the anti war protests were at their height and the cities were seeing the race riots. One point he makes is that while there were massive anti war protests and blacks burned city ghettos, the majority of Americans supported both the war and govt, they even elected Nixon. I don't think current divisions are as deep as in the 1960s, never mind 100 years previous.
I'd love if someone could point out a time when the US, or any other country for that matter, was united in love and fraternity!

Gore-Bush, Clinton's era, Reagan-Carter, Nixon, LBJ, Kennedy....
every period was "our nation is at a crossroads" or "It's time to bring people together" or "this is the most important election in recent history" etc etc.

People just forget; that's all.
 

A Voice

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
7,339
US life expectancy drops for second year in a row - CNN

For two years we have been told America is booming, it is supposedly the richest country in history right now.
But just look at this diabolical report.
Just also look at where the malaise of poverty and early death is most rife, States that are consumed and addicted to Trump and his disgusting party.
The seven lowest life expectancy states in America (Mississippi, West Virginia, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma and Arkansas) are as close to making no difference to being Trump's top 7 States.
Desperate people putting guns and religion ahead of their health, education and well being, and that ignorance being exploited expertly by Trump/GOP.


This, for me at least, is an addiction, a disease, people believing that someone like Trump can better them, when all the evidence is showing is he is putting them further and further into poverty, while giving all the goodies to the already wealthy.

The wealth gap worldwide is for me the greatest crime in history, but nowhere is this crime more obvious than the US, and nowhere is it more repulsive and treated with such ambivalence.

But most of all ponder the following, how in the name of christ can the supposed strongest and wealthiest economy in the history of mankind have a decline in life expectancy in 2018?
With the monstrous advances in technology, of wealth generation, of medicine, of vaccinations, of lack of wars, it is just obscene and it is immoral.

America is eating itself alive.
Someone should tell the caravan and all the other migrants to the USA and all their friends in the media and all their SJW cheerleaders.

Get the message out: "Stay in your socialist and other paradises".
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
There is a lot in here but what jumped out at me is that the CDC [FONT=&quot]show that drug overdoses killed more than 70,000 Americans in 2017, a record. Overdose deaths are higher than deaths from H.I.V., car crashes or gun violence at their peaks. In a separate report, the C.D.C. also documented a 3.7 percent increase in the suicide rate, another continuation of a recent trend.

The recent increases in drug overdose deaths have been so steep that they have contributed to reductions in the country’s life expectancy over the last three years, a pattern unprecedented since World War II. Life expectancy at birth has fallen by nearly four months, and drug overdoses are the leading cause of death for adults under 55.

There is a massive opioid crisis in the States.[/FONT]
 

Hogsback

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
1,566
So ye, Dems have sure played their part, but the GOP's template is vile and if it continues, the wealth gap is going to get even more obscene.
It's more than that unfortunately.
If I recall correctly the Dems have had power for about 2 thirds of the time in the last century or so.

For a lot of that time they represented the working class well - jobs, homes, car on the driveway and all that.

In the last couple of decades they have turned away from an anti poverty, pro-development agenda to a pro-austerity, anti-development one.

Hardline environmentalism since the mid-80s is in large part responsible.

When someone comes along offering to open factories, mines, heavy industry and lower the cost of living they will have strong appeal to such people.
 

owedtojoy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
45,595
US life expectancy drops for second year in a row - CNN

For two years we have been told America is booming, it is supposedly the richest country in history right now.
But just look at this diabolical report.
Just also look at where the malaise of poverty and early death is most rife, States that are consumed and addicted to Trump and his disgusting party.
The seven lowest life expectancy states in America (Mississippi, West Virginia, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma and Arkansas) are as close to making no difference to being Trump's top 7 States.
Desperate people putting guns and religion ahead of their health, education and well being, and that ignorance being exploited expertly by Trump/GOP.


This, for me at least, is an addiction, a disease, people believing that someone like Trump can better them, when all the evidence is showing is he is putting them further and further into poverty, while giving all the goodies to the already wealthy.

The wealth gap worldwide is for me the greatest crime in history, but nowhere is this crime more obvious than the US, and nowhere is it more repulsive and treated with such ambivalence.

But most of all ponder the following, how in the name of christ can the supposed strongest and wealthiest economy in the history of mankind have a decline in life expectancy in 2018?
With the monstrous advances in technology, of wealth generation, of medicine, of vaccinations, of lack of wars, it is just obscene and it is immoral.

America is eating itself alive.
A cancer has been gnawing at America since the Presidency of Ronald Reagan.

That was the time when many of the safety nets installed by the New Deal were dismantled, mainly by politicians who made themselves the agents of the plutocrat class. These were mainly Republicans, but Democrats participated too (Yes, that was the Clinton Presidency).



In short, misery in the lives of the white working class began to mimic the misery already existing the lives of minorities. And it is not the fault of minority communities or immigrants, though it is often presented that way. Among western industrialised countries, this is unique to the USA. I started a thread on it here:

The decay of US white communities ....

Another effect of the last 40 years is that there is much less social mobility across all classes than in Europe. America as "the Land of Opportunity" is dying.



"The US is more unequal & unfair for its citizens than Europe"
 

Ardillaun

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
11,305
bad medical advice around diet, medicine corrupted by pharma money and a profit led model which is anti lifestyle medicine. cure their obesity rates and life expectancy would go up. not sure what the Trump angle here is, the US went off the rails in the 70's regarding health
The main causes of death depressing life expectancy at the moment are suicide and overdose, so I think the problems are more than diet (which will show up in a bigger way soon) and they go back decades. People are less connected by careers, marriage, kinship, and membership than they used to be and such isolation affects men more than women. In my opinion, Americans value work and money too much and the downside is what happens when you lose at these games.
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
24,933
US life expectancy drops for second year in a row - CNN

For two years we have been told America is booming, it is supposedly the richest country in history right now.
But just look at this diabolical report.
Just also look at where the malaise of poverty and early death is most rife, States that are consumed and addicted to Trump and his disgusting party.
The seven lowest life expectancy states in America (Mississippi, West Virginia, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma and Arkansas) are as close to making no difference to being Trump's top 7 States.
Desperate people putting guns and religion ahead of their health, education and well being, and that ignorance being exploited expertly by Trump/GOP.


This, for me at least, is an addiction, a disease, people believing that someone like Trump can better them, when all the evidence is showing is he is putting them further and further into poverty, while giving all the goodies to the already wealthy.

The wealth gap worldwide is for me the greatest crime in history, but nowhere is this crime more obvious than the US, and nowhere is it more repulsive and treated with such ambivalence.

But most of all ponder the following, how in the name of christ can the supposed strongest and wealthiest economy in the history of mankind have a decline in life expectancy in 2018?
With the monstrous advances in technology, of wealth generation, of medicine, of vaccinations, of lack of wars, it is just obscene and it is immoral.

America is eating itself alive.
It was like that under the horrible Clinton's and Obama. In Obama's home town the blacks are slaughtering each other by the dozen.

Yes the yanks are crazy on guns and religion, you aren't going to change that by ranting on p.ie, I think it's going to take 200 years to change that to any measurable degree.
 
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