Is Brexit Dunkirk?

nomahdi

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Looking for the most analogous historical moment: does Brexit correspond to 1940?
Europe overrun by German power. France being reduced to a doughty Resistance (Marine Le Pen), the Brits with nothing further attainable on the mainland, so beating a retreat, as sombre as it is glorious.
A matter of years to go before the mainland is liberated, again through outside intervention (US, Russia …).
Without overdoing notions of ‘eternal recurrence’ (Egypt, India, Pythagoreans, Nietzsche …), is the EU beetling back to the very context – Franco-German continent-wrecking conflict – from which it sprang and as an apology for which it was sold?
More specifically, is Brexit that totally warranted, though fraught, manoeuvre: Dunkirk?
 


Half Nelson

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Looking for the most analogous historical moment: does Brexit correspond to 1940?
Europe overrun by German power. France being reduced to a doughty Resistance (Marine Le Pen), the Brits with nothing further attainable on the mainland, so beating a retreat, as sombre as it is glorious.
A matter of years to go before the mainland is liberated, again through outside intervention (US, Russia …).
Without overdoing notions of ‘eternal recurrence’ (Egypt, India, Pythagoreans, Nietzsche …), is the EU beetling back to the very context – Franco-German continent-wrecking conflict – from which it sprang and as an apology for which it was sold?
More specifically, is Brexit that totally warranted, though fraught, manoeuvre: Dunkirk?
I think I see where you're going with this.
Is Europe fated to revert to a continent ruled and divided by national characters?

Well, Europe is intent on rejecting that which defined and united us - our Christian heritage, the root of the EU - so, can Europeans find another uniting ideal? Can we unite in loyalty to the EU?

It's not looking good.
 

Rural

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I don't think there is much of a comparison, the British people really pulled together as a Nation at that time, this vote (I think no matter what the result) has divided Britain.

"The little ships of Dunkirk were 700 private boats that sailed from Ramsgate in England to Dunkirk in France between 26 May and 4 June 1940 as part of Operation Dynamo, helping to rescue more than 338,000 British and French soldiers who were trapped on the beaches at Dunkirk during the Second World War."
 
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ManUnited

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I think I see where you're going with this.
Is Europe fated to revert to a continent ruled and divided by national characters?

Well, Europe is intent on rejecting that which defined and united us - our Christian heritage, the root of the EU - so, can Europeans find another uniting ideal? Can we unite in loyalty to the EU?

It's not looking good.
"The root of the EU" is peace, trying to stop the christians blowing each other to pieces.
 

Prof Honeydew

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The inability of an entire ruling class to face up to the consequences of Brexit sounds eerily like dressing up the crushing defeat of the British Army in 1940 as the glorious victory of Dunkirk
 

Truth.ie

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Id compare it to the Boston Tea Party.
Greatest act of peaceful, civil disobedience in generations,
 

Hunter-Gatherer

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Brexit reminds me of the Peasants Revolt. Farage is Watt Tyler.
 

nomahdi

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I don't think there is much of a comparison, the British people really pulled together as a Nation at that time, this vote (I think no matter what the result) has divided Britain.
"The little ships of Dunkirk were 700 private boats that sailed from Ramsgate in England to Dunkirk in France between 26 May and 4 June 1940 as part of Operation Dynamo, helping to rescue more than 338,000 British and French soldiers who were trapped on the beaches at Dunkirk during the Second World War."
The reconstituted national morale came later (the Blitz). In the moment Dunkirk felt like total defeat. Actually it was a warranted retreat from an intractable situation.

I think I see where you're going with this.
Is Europe fated to revert to a continent ruled and divided by national characters? ...
It's not looking good.
'national characters' or, worse, 'caricatures'.
Talk to Germans: by now they believe their own self-serving caricatures of feckless Mediterraneans, etc. And of course the self-serving corollary: they themselves deserve their hegemony ...
No, it don't look good ...
 

Rural

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The reconstituted national morale came later (the Blitz). In the moment Dunkirk felt like total defeat. Actually it was a warranted retreat from an intractable situation.



...
Yeh apologies, I went straight for the "heart warming" bit.

And who knows, there could still be something good to come out of this, as I say, who knows!
 

Half Nelson

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"The root of the EU" is peace, trying to stop the christians blowing each other to pieces.
That's a very simplistic analysis. There's nothing Christian about war.
If anything, the root of WWII lies in the nihilistic philosophy of people like Nietzsche. The founders of the ECSC called largely on Christian principles and even a Papal encyclical to provide a way to lasting peace.

But the principles of the EU are no longer Christian and are not in harmony with the human spirit, so we're seeing growing unease and rebellion against a ruling entity that does not inspire loyalty.
 

eoghanacht

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Brexit reminds me of the Peasants Revolt. Farage is Watt Tyler.
That's the guy they hung at Tyburn.

I see our European friends aware of our special position in regards to Britain have decided our elected MEP's aren't worthy of speaking time.

Reform of the EU or we should consider exiting ourselves
 

Truth.ie

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That's the guy they hung at Tyburn.

I see our European friends aware of our special position in regards to Britain have decided our elected MEP's aren't worthy of speaking time.

Reform of the EU or we should consider exiting ourselves
Theres been 40 years to carry out reform and it hasnt happened.
Ireland needs to get out and regain sovereignty and control
 

Accidental sock

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eoghanacht

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Theres been 40 years to carry out reform and it hasnt happened.
Ireland needs to get out and regain sovereignty and control
These are "strange days" so I'm vainly hoping common sense prevails, I realize the foolhardiness of that.

For the time I remain pro remain, but TTiP needs to be stopped.
 

nomahdi

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What the hell do you know about the Germans?
Quite a lot. Bin 3- oder 4mal im Jahr in Deutschland, treffe auch ab und zu mit deutschen Freunden/Bekannten.
It's noteworthy: if you say straight to Germans 'you've overrun Europe again', 'you're just cashing in', 'you're being short-sighted', 'this can't end well': very often they'll nod soberly and say 'du hast wohl Recht' (you're probably right).
Whereas say the same things to Germanophiles, or the Quisling class in any EU country, and they'll splutter at once: you're being anti-German.
Probably exactly how things were in Europe in 1939-1944.
 


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