Is Charlie really the man to clean up justice?

Disillusioned democrat

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So on 4 Sep Noirin O'Sullivan comes back from a long holiday and news "silly season" will come to an end as the nights draw in and millions of people start to pay attention to the news again. At some stage the Dail will resume and the various inquiries into AGS will start again.

Law and order - or lack of it - is on the "top 3" list issues that will bring this government to a premature halt and probably consign FG to the opposition benches for a decade.

The question I'd be asking myself, if I were Leo Varadkar, is "Is Charlie Flanagan REALLY up to the job of cleaning up our dysfunctional justice system"?

 


tsarbomb

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Considering he needs an instruction manual to tie his shoes each morning.......... no
 

ruman

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He's as much interest in cleaning up Justice as Simon/Leo had in cleaning up health.

FG fought the 2011 election on the promise of Reilly/Shatter introducing sweeping reforms.

Both were subsequently taken out due to the objections of the insiders (and their own incompetence) and replaced by YES men who run both departments for the benefit of staff.

The legal and health systems here exist solely for the benefit of those employed in it. Simon and Charlie have no interest in changing this nor does Leo.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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He's as much interest in cleaning up Justice as Simon/Leo had in cleaning up health.

FG fought the 2011 election on the promise of Reilly/Shatter introducing sweeping reforms.

Both were subsequently taken out due to the objections of the insiders (and their own incompetence) and replaced by YES men who run both departments for the benefit of staff.

The legal and health systems here exist solely for the benefit of those employed in it. Simon and Charlie have no interest in changing this nor does Leo.
Health, justice and housing seems to be this governments Achilles Heel - all three areas where there's far more money to be made in doing it badly than doing it right.

Harris, Flanagan and now Murphy are 3 FG Ministers who between them spend probably 70%+ of the state's money and most would say very badly.

Leo Varadkar has an opportunity - much like Kenny - to do the RIGHT thing but only time will tell.
 

Spanner Island

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Shatter was probably the person to clean up justice...

Despite his arrogance and obvious flaws... he was p!ssing off the self regulating and self serving legal eagles a lot and seemed determined to take them on... which is always a good sign imo.

If you're ruffling feathers you're on the right track.

Can't see Charlie ruffling any feathers tbh.
 

ruman

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Health, justice and housing seems to be this governments Achilles Heel - all three areas where there's far more money to be made in doing it badly than doing it right.

Harris, Flanagan and now Murphy are 3 FG Ministers who between them spend probably 70%+ of the state's money and most would say very badly.

Leo Varadkar has an opportunity - much like Kenny - to do the RIGHT thing but only time will tell.
Harris is completely out of his depth, the HSE DG/CMO/ DOH Sec Gen are effectively running our health service. You may as well not have a Minister.

Flanagan supposedly did an ok job in Foreign Affairs and cant be much worse then the previous incumbent. It's probably too early to say but I doubt he's much interest in reform. Lab/FG blew that opportunity after the troika told them to.

Eoghan Murphy like Harris appears to have been promoted very quickly. Like Health you need long term fundamental reform of the housing. I don't get the sense he or Harris have the slightest interest in changing things. I'm not sure why either entered Politics to be honest.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Harris is completely out of his depth, the HSE DG/CMO/ DOH Sec Gen are effectively running our health service. You may as well not have a Minister.

Flanagan supposedly did an ok job in Foreign Affairs and cant be much worse then the previous incumbent. It's probably too early to say but I doubt he's much interest in reform. Lab/FG blew that opportunity after the troika told them to.

Eoghan Murphy like Harris appears to have been promoted very quickly. Like Health you need long term fundamental reform of the housing. I don't get the sense he or Harris have the slightest interest in changing things. I'm not sure why either entered Politics to be honest.
Harris says he entered politics because he wanted to be able to change the system - I believe he had family reasons for wanting to be able to influence the HSE.

Murphy is a career spoofer (IMHO) and his DNA and time in the UN says he's happy using other peoples' money and feels no compunction to actually deliver anything. Anecdotally he's driving the national housing guys mad because he's looking for quick fixes and nice stats, but no interest in "solving" the problem.

To me Flanagan is an unknown - a TD for 30 years with no discernible track record and now in charge of a cluster phuck that threatens our very democracy.
 

brughahaha

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He's as much interest in cleaning up Justice as Simon/Leo had in cleaning up health.

FG fought the 2011 election on the promise of Reilly/Shatter introducing sweeping reforms.

Both were subsequently taken out due to the objections of the insiders (and their own incompetence) and replaced by YES men who run both departments for the benefit of staff.

The legal and health systems here exist solely for the benefit of those employed in it. Simon and Charlie have no interest in changing this nor does Leo.
Very few politicians (or journalists) have any interest in changing the cosy cartels
 

Apple in Eden

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So on 4 Sep Noirin O'Sullivan comes back from a long holiday and news "silly season" will come to an end as the nights draw in and millions of people start to pay attention to the news again. At some stage the Dail will resume and the various inquiries into AGS will start again.

Law and order - or lack of it - is on the "top 3" list issues that will bring this government to a premature halt and probably consign FG to the opposition benches for a decade.

The question I'd be asking myself, if I were Leo Varadkar, is "Is Charlie Flanagan REALLY up to the job of cleaning up our dysfunctional justice system"?

In a word NO
 

brughahaha

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Harris says he entered politics because he wanted to be able to change the system - I believe he had family reasons for wanting to be able to influence the HSE.

Murphy is a career spoofer (IMHO) and his DNA and time in the UN says he's happy using other peoples' money and feels no compunction to actually deliver anything. Anecdotally he's driving the national housing guys mad because he's looking for quick fixes and nice stats, but no interest in "solving" the problem.

To me Flanagan is an unknown - a TD for 30 years with no discernible track record and now in charge of a cluster phuck that threatens our very democracy.
I think Flanagan is your typical Irish TD. Constituency Base that'll vote FG regardless- so a safe seat for the senior Blueshirt , knows which funerals to go to , always answers a question by reciting and repeating the question and when pushed seems oblivious that him and his party have been in Government for 6 years

Man of limited abilities that would be let next nor near a department of that size /importance or budget in the private sector , who will see out his days ensuring more of the same by doing exactly (and reading out exactly) what his handlers mnadarind=s and media trainers tell him

Typical Irish TD dullard
 

ger12

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Shatter was probably the person to clean up justice...

Despite his arrogance and obvious flaws... he was p!ssing off the self regulating and self serving legal eagles a lot and seemed determined to take them on... which is always a good sign imo.

If you're ruffling feathers you're on the right track.

Can't see Charlie ruffling any feathers tbh.
I don't agree. He stood firmly behind the then Commissioner and his public disclosure on PrimeTime of an incident with Wallace was simply appalling.

His vision for the justice system was one where big firms would dominate, obtaining access to justice would be difficult for the ordinary wo/man imo.
 

realistic1

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So on 4 Sep Noirin O'Sullivan comes back from a long holiday and news "silly season" will come to an end as the nights draw in and millions of people start to pay attention to the news again. At some stage the Dail will resume and the various inquiries into AGS will start again.

Law and order - or lack of it - is on the "top 3" list issues that will bring this government to a premature halt and probably consign FG to the opposition benches for a decade.

The question I'd be asking myself, if I were Leo Varadkar, is "Is Charlie Flanagan REALLY up to the job of cleaning up our dysfunctional justice system"?


When was the last time you heard any senior Politician say they want to get really tough on crime?? It is all about suspended sentences, rehabilitation and no punishment. If this rehabilitation is really working why are crims racking up hundreds of previous convictions?
 

ruman

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Is it possible he's there specifically to ensure there's no reform?
I'd say that's an accurate description of why LV/FF replaced Shatter/Reilly. (Keep a low profile and don't f*ck up until the election.)

The current govt is so weak it cant (and isn't) introducing any legislation so even if they wanted to reform the couldn't.
Of course FF/FG should have formed a proper coalition and between them they could have done what FG/Lab failed to do after the electorate gave them an overwhelming mandate to do so.

It's 10 years now since the crash so any reform that might of happened wont happen now. Best you can do is either -

1) ask the germans to take over

or
2) reduce tax as much as possible so I can spend my money on myself instead of stealing it to keep Howlins public sector mates (and the rent seeking private sector) in the style to which they have become accustomed
 
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*EPIC SUCCESS*

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No.

Not one person in FG suitable to flip burgers yet they are running the country for the benefit of certain sections while others are left further and further behind.

Varadkar has to be the most vaccuous politician, let alone Taoiseach, we have ever had. Spin and PR is all he has.
 

GJG

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Shatter was probably the person to clean up justice...

Despite his arrogance and obvious flaws... he was p!ssing off the self regulating and self serving legal eagles a lot and seemed determined to take them on... which is always a good sign imo.

If you're ruffling feathers you're on the right track.

Can't see Charlie ruffling any feathers tbh.
I thought so too but his mammoth legal reform bill was gutted by lobbying by the legal profession; they managed to get hold of the draft legislation before the cabinet saw it, and in the end there was no effective reform. As a department manager, Shatter failed utterly in taking control of his brief

From his younger days, I would have thought that Shatter was exactly the person to stand up to the vested interests and push through the reforms, but in the end he cuddled up to a crook like Callinan who was conspiring to break data protection laws to attack a TD pushing for garda reform. Very, very disappointing.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Justice in general, and AGS in particular, are very specific threats to our country both economically and democratically.

I've just seen a post on another thread call the commissioner of AGS a whore...fairly unthinkable a year ago but now an understandable symptom of the frustration and anger felt by many citizens.

If citizens don't respect the law and the law enforcers then law and order can only be enforced by fear - a very poor outcome for any democracy.

From the posts above on this thread I'd take it that there aren't many people out there who think this lad is up to the job that desperately needs to get done.
 


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