Is Cromwell the real face of Irish Republicanism?

Breadan O'Connor

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
1,242
A controversial new book new book traces the founding of Irish republicanism directly back to Oliver Cromwell. In "Dissent into Treason", Fergus Whelan says the descendents of those who came into Ireland with Cromwell's army were the founders of the United Irishmen in 1791.

"These Protestant dissenters who came to Dublin with Cromwell were always radical, and remained radical, with freedom of conscience as their core belief......... They had basic Republican and democratic structures in their religious observance but also advocated those structures in society as well. Their belief in religious liberty is the very essence of what the United Irishmen were about- and that came from the Cromwellian tradition of English Protestant dissent"

The leader of the "King Killers of Pill Lane", a group of Protestant radicals within the United Irishmen, was Oliver "cromwell" Bond, and the book claims the regicide referred to was that of Charles I in 1649 by the followers of Cromwell. The established Anglican Church was also considered the enemy of religious tolerance, with Bishops and Kings considered as "tyrants".

Whelan's research is based on old records from a meeting house in Dublin, which once housed the Dublin Unitarian church. Is Cromwell the real face of Irish Republicanism?
 


Aspherical123

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
2,579
A controversial new book new book traces the founding of Irish republicanism directly back to Oliver Cromwell. In "Dissent into Treason", Fergus Whelan says the descendents of those who came into Ireland with Cromwell's army were the founders of the United Irishmen in 1791.

"These Protestant dissenters who came to Dublin with Cromwell were always radical, and remained radical, with freedom of conscience as their core belief......... They had basic Republican and democratic structures in their religious observance but also advocated those structures in society as well. Their belief in religious liberty is the very essence of what the United Irishmen were about- and that came from the Cromwellian tradition of English Protestant dissent"

The leader of the "King Killers of Pill Lane", a group of Protestant radicals within the United Irishmen, was Oliver "cromwell" Bond, and the book claims the regicide referred to was that of Charles I in 1649 by the followers of Cromwell. The established Anglican Church was also considered the enemy of religious tolerance, with Bishops and Kings considered as "tyrants".

Whelan's research is based on old records from a meeting house in Dublin, which once housed the Dublin Unitarian church. Is Cromwell the real face of Irish Republicanism?
Of course, hence the Presyterian link to Irish republicanism, the levellers fought for republicism, democracy and against the church, feudalism and absolute monarchy.

The Irish fought for the wrong side, they fought for royalism and the continuation of feudalism. The church created a bogeyman in Cromwell to stop Catholics supporting republican ideals.


"These Protestant dissenters who came to Dublin as part of the Cromwellian settlement were always radical, and remained radical, with freedom of conscience as their core belief," says Whelan. "They had basic republican and democratic structures in their religious observance, but also advocated those structures in civil society as well. Their belief in religious liberty is the very essence of what the United Irishmen were about – and that came from the Cromwellian tradition of English Protestant dissent."
 
Last edited:

SlabMurphy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,684
Website
www.dublin.ie
A controversial new book new book traces the founding of Irish republicanism directly back to Oliver Cromwell. In "Dissent into Treason", Fergus Whelan says the descendents of those who came into Ireland with Cromwell's army were the founders of the United Irishmen in 1791.

"These Protestant dissenters who came to Dublin with Cromwell were always radical, and remained radical, with freedom of conscience as their core belief......... They had basic Republican and democratic structures in their religious observance but also advocated those structures in society as well. Their belief in religious liberty is the very essence of what the United Irishmen were about- and that came from the Cromwellian tradition of English Protestant dissent"

The leader of the "King Killers of Pill Lane", a group of Protestant radicals within the United Irishmen, was Oliver "cromwell" Bond, and the book claims the regicide referred to was that of Charles I in 1649 by the followers of Cromwell. The established Anglican Church was also considered the enemy of religious tolerance, with Bishops and Kings considered as "tyrants".

Whelan's research is based on old records from a meeting house in Dublin, which once housed the Dublin Unitarian church. Is Cromwell the real face of Irish Republicanism?
Done to death a hundred times.........Next now, another thread on The genocidal campaign of the IRA against Protestants :rolleyes:ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 

Breadan O'Connor

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
1,242
Done to death a hundred times.........Next now, another thread on The genocidal campaign of the IRA against Protestants :rolleyes:ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I'm not doing a hatchet job on republicanism!

It is a historical fact that Republicanism was introduced to Ireland by Radical dissenters, including clergymen.

Nobody needs to feel threatened by that!
 

Aspherical123

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
2,579
I'm not doing a hatchet job on republicanism!

It is a historical fact that Republicanism was introduced to Ireland by Radical dissenters, including clergymen.

Nobody needs to feel threatened by that!
Yes, but it rewrites Irish republican history as its been taught, hence their hostility.
 

A Time for Every Purpose

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
391
Of course, hence the Presyterian link to Irish republicanism, the levellers fought for republicism, democracy and against the church, feudalism and absolute monarchy.

The Irish fought for the wrong side, they fought for royalism and the continuation of feudalism. The church created a bogeyman in Cromwell to stop Catholics supporting republican ideals.


"These Protestant dissenters who came to Dublin as part of the Cromwellian settlement were always radical, and remained radical, with freedom of conscience as their core belief," says Whelan. "They had basic republican and democratic structures in their religious observance, but also advocated those structures in civil society as well. Their belief in religious liberty is the very essence of what the United Irishmen were about – and that came from the Cromwellian tradition of English Protestant dissent."
Total rubbish.
Celts were always independent and fighters,and more Catholic in the true sense than protestantism,which is cold and pragmatic.
 

Anglo Celt

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
1,177

Aspherical123

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
2,579
Total rubbish.
Celts were always independent and fighters,and more Catholic in the true sense than protestantism,which is cold and pragmatic.
The "Celts" were never in Ireland you moron, but if you mean Gaels, the vikings assimilated with them (hence hiberno-norse as a language in the waterford area up until the 15th century), at the time of cromwells invasion the Gaelic artistocracy controlled only 1/3rd of Ireland the rest was ruled by the Anglo-Normans, ie the English(French really) who arrived in the late 10th century.

The Gaels were so independent it took the vikings to found Ireland cities, from Dublin to waterford, Limerick and cork.
 
D

Duth Ealla

whats controversial about it. descendants of Soldiers of Cromwell contributed in some way to the formation of republicanism in ireland.
 
D

Duth Ealla

The "Celts" were never in Ireland you moron, but if you mean Gaels, the vikings assimilated with them, at the time of cromwells invasion the Gaelic artistocracy controlled only 1/3rd of Ireland the rest was ruled by the Anglo-Normans, ie the English who arrived in the late 10th century.
The english (the angles) were gone they were beaten and assimilated by the Norman French (the franks so they werent factually franks either because they were assimilated by the romano-gallic culture) and on and on it goes with the Italians - pre-Romans for christ sake.

you are the moron here. Be less quick to expose your own ignorance and you'll do a bit better.
 

Aspherical123

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
2,579
The english (the angles) were gone they were beaten and assimilated by the Norman French (the franks so they werent factually franks either because they were assimilated by the romano-gallic culture) and on and on it goes with the Italians - pre-Romans for christ sake.

you are the moron here. Be less quick to expose your own ignorance and you'll do a bit better.
Do you really think I dont know the "English" who came in the late 10th century were not really English but French, they never even spoke English.

But they are called Anglo-Norman.

The Normans ancestory is Viking, Norman is French for Norseman.
 
D

Duth Ealla

Tradionally its taught "planters" only contributed misery.
well they didnt break bread and hand out roses for the first few years did they.

The planters were sent to replace the Irish. Some of the rejected that and became irish. How is this a shock.

You are applying some type of moral view to history as sure as those who say the planters and planter stock never contributed anygood.
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,257
Of course, hence the Presyterian link to Irish republicanism, the levellers fought for republicism, democracy and against the church, feudalism and absolute monarchy.

The Irish fought for the wrong side, they fought for royalism and the continuation of feudalism. The church created a bogeyman in Cromwell to stop Catholics supporting republican ideals.


"These Protestant dissenters who came to Dublin as part of the Cromwellian settlement were always radical, and remained radical, with freedom of conscience as their core belief," says Whelan. "They had basic republican and democratic structures in their religious observance, but also advocated those structures in civil society as well. Their belief in religious liberty is the very essence of what the United Irishmen were about – and that came from the Cromwellian tradition of English Protestant dissent."
The church created a bogeyman in Cromwell to stop Catholics supporting republican ideals.

I presume you mean the Catholic Church?

When and where did they do this?

Not exactly and Earth shattering discovery that Presbyterians were prominent in the ranks of the United Irishmen but how much they were influenced by Oliver Cromwell is open to question.

It was the American & French Revolutions that were the major influences on the United Irishmen in 1791.

Cromwell was a Dictator and not a democrat, nor was he a social revolutionary.

IIRC he had a few run ins with the Presbyterians himself

- in which they came off 2nd best...:oops:

Also when studying those times the power and influence of the shadowy (Catholic) Defenders should not be underestimated

- they directed and carried out many act of resistance against the Crown Forces regardless of what the primarily middle class members of the UI got up to.

The Presbyterians of the United Irishmen were only one part of a bigger picture in the Ireland of the 1790's.
 
Last edited:


New Threads

Most Replies

Top