Is delayed Dublin MRI scan "rationing by queue"?

galteeman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
3,626
Not all MRIs are equal, so a lot depends on the scanner and the reason the scan needed.

I would imagine at €260 a scan they're using the cheaper low-field MRI scanner, which can cost 20 times less than high-field scanners - which are what will typically be used in a hospital setting.

So, while low field might be acceptable for some circumstances, scanning legs and arms, they have far higher surface to noise ratio, lower contrast, and lower resolution to full body high-field scanners, as well as that private clinics may also not be able to perform more complex procedures or contrast imaging with low-field machines.
Hi is it true that the public scanners are under utilised and only work limited hours?
 


EU Insider

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
417
Hi is it true that the public scanners are under utilised and only work limited hours?
No, at least probably not in the way people trying to rubbish the health service would like. Again it's not comparing like with like.

They're never going to be operating 24/7. They aren't normally operated by a radiographer/radiologist (maybe in Ireland they are, I'm not sure) but by a MRI technician who are less expensive to employ. However, again when deal in more complex cases, as a hospital will over a private clinic, more highly trained medical staff will be needed, such as when administering contrast agents - which will be done by radiographer not by an MRI tech.

Minor scans of extremities may take 20 minutes at the most, which allow private clinics to schedule far more in a day and they are likely using low-field machines and not employing a radiographer.
More complex scans can take up to 90 minutes or more, on a vastly more expensive machine and require a radiographer and will therefore not allow the same level of use in terms of throughput of patients.
 

EU Insider

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
417
Yes the MRI would be done under general anaesthetic.

So likely will require a consultant, an anesthesiologist, a radiographer, a MRI Technician, and support staff, might also require a specific machine to suit the specific requirements of the medics and the patient. It doesn't excuse the ridiculous wait and certainly highlights the significant issues the health service faces (and ought to be addressed) but demonstrates that this is a particularly complex case.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
5,212
So likely will require a consultant, an anesthesiologist, a radiographer, a MRI Technician, and support staff, might also require a specific machine to suit the specific requirements of the medics and the patient. It doesn't excuse the ridiculous wait and certainly highlights the significant issues the health service faces (and ought to be addressed) but demonstrates that this is a particularly complex case.
Communist equal pay for all salary only consultants likely hobbles recruitment of anesthesiologists who rank among the highest paid hospital consultants internationally. To the extent Irish doctors emigrate to get consultancy training and foreign doctors from emerging market countries come here, the market and pay for many consultants is internationally oriented. With Ireland's tax rates on top incomes being among the very highest in the EU without corresponding benefits, it is hard to attract consultants in scarce specialties.
 

MsDaisyC

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2017
Messages
4,634
Communist equal pay for all salary only consultants likely hobbles recruitment of anesthesiologists who rank among the highest paid hospital consultants internationally. To the extent Irish doctors emigrate to get consultancy training and foreign doctors from emerging market countries come here, the market and pay for many consultants is internationally oriented. With Ireland's tax rates on top incomes being among the very highest in the EU without corresponding benefits, it is hard to attract consultants in scarce specialties.
More professions you didn't bother to go for?
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
30,318
On the Affidea website you can book an MRI scan for 260 euro cash within 7 days.
Thats for a scan where you don't have to be sedated and monitored for the duration due to many underlying conditions.

The 2029 delay is outragous. Completely agree.
However let's not pretend that somehow the private hospitals are models of efficiency compared to public.
What happens is private hospitals get to pick and choose their work. The mill through knees and hips because its relatively straightforward.
They scan people who can lie still and don't have serious injuries. They don't have to bump people out of the way when my ambulance arrives in with a stroke patient.

You know what happens when something more complicated than a simple fracture arrives at a VHI clinic? I get called to take them to a real Emergency Department.

Now that ED might be like the black hole of calcutta (although unsurprisingly all the sham calls dropped off during covid and are now returning) but if you want your life saved, if your arm is hanging off or if you just had a massive heart attack the public system is where you go and it does a pretty decent job for acute cases.

Rock in to the hermitage sometime with a stab wound and admire the look of horror as you bleed on the carpet.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
5,212
Thats for a scan where you don't have to be sedated and monitored for the duration due to many underlying conditions.

The 2029 delay is outragous. Completely agree.
However let's not pretend that somehow the private hospitals are models of efficiency compared to public.
What happens is private hospitals get to pick and choose their work. The mill through knees and hips because its relatively straightforward.
They scan people who can lie still and don't have serious injuries. They don't have to bump people out of the way when my ambulance arrives in with a stroke patient.

You know what happens when something more complicated than a simple fracture arrives at a VHI clinic? I get called to take them to a real Emergency Department.

Now that ED might be like the black hole of calcutta (although unsurprisingly all the sham calls dropped off during covid and are now returning) but if you want your life saved, if your arm is hanging off or if you just had a massive heart attack the public system is where you go and it does a pretty decent job for acute cases.

Rock in to the hermitage sometime with a stab wound and admire the look of horror as you bleed on the carpet.
If Irish hospital staff were paid the same as in UK hospitals, understaffing would cease quickly and ED wouldn't look chaotic.
 

EU Insider

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2020
Messages
417
Communist equal pay for all salary only consultants likely hobbles recruitment of anesthesiologists who rank among the highest paid hospital consultants internationally. To the extent Irish doctors emigrate to get consultancy training and foreign doctors from emerging market countries come here, the market and pay for many consultants is internationally oriented. With Ireland's tax rates on top incomes being among the very highest in the EU without corresponding benefits, it is hard to attract consultants in scarce specialties.
What?
 

Buchaill Dana

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
12,584
Pat is the grumpy fecker at the end of the bar people try to avoid eye contact with. He 'remembers' surveys and Sindo articles from years ago that back up his myopic world view and gets very cranky when his 'remembering' is challenged. These articles fit into a grand narrative that everything is the public services fault. Every. Thing.

Facts don't matter. Its fivepintsonomics
 

Ardillaun

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
13,234
One way to attract applicants to jobs that are highly paid elsewhere and have a high volume of procedures might be to pay them on a fee-for-service basis, wholly or partly. In Canada, nearly all radiologists and ophthalmologists, for example, are paid this way.
 

Ardillaun

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
13,234
You don’t want to pay somebody for a job they are not fully committed to. Public and private can be tricky to mix in some cases, esp. when the way people are paid is different on the two sides.
 

omgsquared

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
645
If Irish hospital staff were paid the same as in UK hospitals, understaffing would cease quickly and ED wouldn't look chaotic.
I am open to correction but I was under the impression that Irish health staff are paid more than UK staff. However issues such as income tax cost of living , Vat and how "self employed" consultants are treated for tax purposes are factors that have to be considered.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
5,212
Pat is the grumpy fecker at the end of the bar people try to avoid eye contact with. He 'remembers' surveys and Sindo articles from years ago that back up his myopic world view and gets very cranky when his 'remembering' is challenged. These articles fit into a grand narrative that everything is the public services fault. Every. Thing.

Facts don't matter. Its fivepintsonomics
Buchaill's attempt at boyish humour is a concealed ad hominem attack.
 
Last edited:

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
5,212
One way to attract applicants to jobs that are highly paid elsewhere and have a high volume of procedures might be to pay them on a fee-for-service basis, wholly or partly. In Canada, nearly all radiologists and ophthalmologists, for example, are paid this way.
A majority of Irish hospital consultants have supposedly partial private practice in publicly funded Irish hospitals but it seems they are permitted to spend more time than contracted for in private practice. Their long hours contribute to high levels of patient treatments in private practice,helping to limit the waiting lists which in many specialties are dire. There was a burst of publicity about cataract patients who were bussed to Northern Ireland from Cork for operations because the long delays for relatively quick cataract operations were threatening a wave of blindness.
The last government's policy of recruiting salary only hospital consultants at around 220,000 euros a year (if I remember correctly) looks expensive for taxpayers going by comments that this salary is nearly as high as double salaries in EU countries such as Germany. The reason it is high is the communist equal pay concept in which the pay needed to attract the scarcest specialties in orthopedics, anesthesis and opthalmology must be paid to all specialties. This pay policy should be treated as absurd. Imagine the reaction If a trade union proposed that all trades people on a building site were to be paid the same as the highest paid-usually the plumbers- to prevent the others from suffering an inferiority complex.
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
5,212
I am open to correction but I was under the impression that Irish health staff are paid more than UK staff. However issues such as income tax cost of living , Vat and how "self employed" consultants are treated for tax purposes are factors that have to be considered.
Nurses in Ireland are paid at least 30% more on average than the UK depending on the value of the £ to the euro. A young man I met late last year told me that he earned more as a unionised unsupervised worker in a rural Irish hospital than he earned as a supervisor for cleaning surgical instruments in a London hospital with the special London allowance for the high cost of living.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top Bottom