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Is France Falling Apart Thread?


Wagmore

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France fuel protests: Macron calls urgent security meeting - BBC News
Thread title is self-explanatory.Have to admit a bias here. Though a mild Francophile my loathing of Macron knows no bounds so his current discomfort is as predictable as it is welcome. His vapid bleatings recently about what constituted patriotism and nationalism exposed him as an empty-headed cipher and quotes included in BBC link suggest the French people have finally rumbled him as the elitist/globalist spiv that he is. As you sow so shall ye reap and it seems Macron is on a collision course with Karma.Just wondering how bad posters think it will get and whether Macron might be toast.The idiot is not for turning and says he is going to press on with his dumb carbon taxes. Reports of the riots are dramatic and suggest a furious populace. Place de la Concorde bound? Well the French? They do have a bloody history when it comes to this sort of thing.
 
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Niall996

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A shower of vandals and thugs isn't going to affect France anymore than they would in any country. They should introduce a one month super tax on everyone to cover the cost of the policing and the vandalism/damage. That'll shut the fringe fanatics up.
 

Wagmore

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A shower of vandals and thugs isn't going to affect France anymore than they would in any country. They should introduce a one month super tax on everyone to cover the cost of the policing and the vandalism/damage. That'll shut the fringe fanatics up.
Yeah, but protesters sound like every day Joes.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Actually it would probably spark massive civil upheaval. Seeing as the Gilets Jaunes currently record 70%-80% support from the general public in France.
 

Niall996

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Yeah, but protesters sound like every day Joes.
Every day Joes tend not to deface the monument to their dead soldiers who fought for their right to march peacefully. There are burnt out cars everywhere probably with precious personal items inside destroyed forever, shops smashed to bits, bus shelters smashed, electric charge points for electric cars smashed to bits, Christmas trees ripped apart, just a mess. the French are waking up to the thugs in the yellow jackets.
 

Niall996

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Actually it would probably spark massive civil upheaval. Seeing as the Gilets Jaunes currently record 70%-80% support from the general public in France.
It stated off like that but the thugs infiltrated and have made it into something else.
 

deepness

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A shower of vandals and thugs isn't going to affect France anymore than they would in any country. They should introduce a one month super tax on everyone to cover the cost of the policing and the vandalism/damage. That'll shut the fringe fanatics up.
Thing is, despite elements trying to paint them as such, the yellow vests are not really thugs and vandals. For the most part they are normal working Joe's....and the way that movement has developed is really interesting. France loves a good protest, quite often for strange old reasons but this one seems.a bit different. There are no real leaders or figure heads to it for starters.
 

Niall996

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Thing is, despite elements trying to paint them as such, the yellow vests are not really thugs and vandals. For the most part they are normal working Joe's....and the way that movement has developed is really interesting. France loves a good protest, quite often for strange old reasons but this one seems.a bit different. There are no real leaders or figure heads to it for starters.
The usual anti capitalist lunatic fringe have taken over. It's now a whole different ball game. France is waking up today seeing the Arc and the flame to the unknown soldier section covered in grafitti. That isn't going to go down well with the French. There's a difference between even 'robust' protest, a bit of push and shove with the cops, and a rabble running around mindlessly smashing the place up.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Well, seeing as it was a rabble running around smashing the place up that actually gave rise to the French Republic you'd have to describe the Gilets Jaunes as traditionalists.
 

Dame_Enda

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France has a tradition of re-enacting the French Revolution when their presidents take tough decisions. Macron is correct to raise fuel tax to combat climate change. He is wrong on lots of other issues.

I recall Alain Juppe as PM and President Chirac caved in to such pressure over economic reforms. Macron was elected by the types that want their leaders to face down unrepresentative special interests that hold the rest of the people back.
 

Niall996

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Well, seeing as it was a rabble running around smashing the place up that actually gave rise to the French Republic you'd have to describe the Gilets Jaunes as traditionalists.
Some of them like to see themselves as such. True. And they think their life conditions are somewhat similar to the peasants of France in the 1700's as well. Laughable.
 

owedtojoy

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France fuel protests: Macron calls urgent security meeting - BBC News
Thread title is self-explanatory.Have to admit a bias here. Though a mild Francophile my loathing of Macron knows no bounds so his current discomfort is as predictable as it is welcome. His vapid bleatings recently about what constituted patriotism and nationalism exposed him as an empty-headed cipher and quotes included in BBC link suggest the French people have finally rumbled him as the elitist/globalist spiv that he is. As you sow so shall ye reap and it seems Macron is on a collision course with Karma.Just wondering who bad posters think it will get and whether Macron might be toast.The idiot is not for turning and says he is going to press on with his dumb carbon taxes. Reports of the riots are dramatic and suggest a furious populace. Place de la Concorde bound? Well the French? They do have a bloody history when it comes to this sort of thing.
Globalist? Did not know Macron was Jewish.

Must be in it with that Jew, George Soros.
 

owedtojoy

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France has a tradition of re-enacting the French Revolution when their presidents take tough decisions. Macron is correct to raise fuel tax to combat climate change. He is wrong on lots of other issues.

I recall Alain Juppe as PM and President Chirac caved in to such pressure over economic reforms. Macron was elected by the types that want their leaders to face down unrepresentative special interests that hold the rest of the people back.
Yep, it is pretty much par for the course in France. They have a tradition for this, road-blocking, fighting with the police etc,

We can amuse ourselves by re-writing the OP to what it would be like if the rioters were Muslims.

In fact, 13 years ago, it was the Muslims.

The 2005 French riots was a three-week period of riots in the suburbs of Paris and other French cities, in October and November 2005. These riots involved youth of African, North African, and (to a lesser extent) French heritage in violent attacks, and the burning of cars and public buildings.
A 3-week State of Emergency was declared.

2005 French riots - Wikipedia

There were ferocious riots in the UK during the Thatcher days, which did not have any electoral results, though it led to a softening by the Tories towards disadvantaged areas - mainly pushed by Michael Heseltine. Maybe Macron will learn a similar lesson.
 

Levellers

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French national day celebrates the storming of the Bastille by the sans culottes.

 

petaljam

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Definitely a critical moment for Macron, for sure. TBH I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier, I predicted this sort of unrest was inevitable from when he presented his actual program as opposed to the aspirational slogans he was elected on.

For people who are discussing whether the violence is from within the Gilets Jaunes or not, the vast majority of the protestors seem not to want violence, to such an extent that I suspect some degree of deliberate provocation by outside agents, but on the other hand there were a couple of protesters interviewed on TV yesterday who seemed surprisingly neutral about the violence. I do think it's a tiny minority though.

The problem as someone has said above is that there are no leaders, and no clear line of negotiation possible. Some of the claims about people being desperate and having nothing are almost laughable though. Especially when they are destroying shops and hairdressers and overturning cars, and leaving those people with nothing, literally.

In short, Macron is in difficulty, and I don't think this is going to go well for him. Meanwhile I have to do a 200km journey this evening, and I don't know if the road is going to be open. I had to do a long detour last week.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Macron worked as an investment banker at Rothschild et cie, remember. He's by no means any kind of socialist.
 

Niall996

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Definitely a critical moment for Macron, for sure. TBH I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier, I predicted this sort of unrest was inevitable from when he presented his actual program as opposed to the aspirational slogans he was elected on.

For people who are discussing whether the violence is from within the Gilets Jaunes or not, the vast majority of the protestors seem not to want violence, to such an extent that I suspect some degree of deliberate provocation by outside agents, but on the other hand there were a couple of protesters interviewed on TV yesterday who seemed surprisingly neutral about the violence. I do think it's a tiny minority though.

The problem as someone has said above is that there are no leaders, and no clear line of negotiation possible. Some of the claims about people being desperate and having nothing are almost laughable though. Especially when they are destroying shops and hairdressers and overturning cars, and leaving those people with nothing, literally.

In short, Macron is in difficulty, and I don't think this is going to go well for him. Meanwhile I have to do a 200km journey this evening, and I don't know if the road is going to be open. I had to do a long detour last week.
The thing is, if you're one of the supposedly law abiding protesters, can you really associate yourself with a protest next Saturday that will lead to vandalism and violence. At some point the peaceful protestors need to dissociate themselves or be as complicit. That point has arrived.
 

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