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Is Ireland capable of self-government?


B

birthday

What is proposed is that Ireland becomes a protectorate of the European Union for a period of 70-100 years. A Secretariat composed of current parliamentarians and Civil servants from Germany and the Nordic EU countries would carry out the functions of Government with recourse to the European Commission/Parliament as required. Local issues such as Arts, Culture, Irish Language, Inland Fisheries and Postage Stamp design could remain under the control of Dáil Eireann.

The evidence of the last 87 years suggests that we have only survived as a result of periodic mass emigration in spite of having avoided many of the calamities that the rest of Europe endured in this period. Our current economic situation indicates that we will be returning to this over the next 20 years. Are we really mature enough to govern ourselves given our history as a colony and our rather unsuccessful post-colonial experience to date?

The gombeenism and greed in the political establishment (especially Fianna Fáil), IBEC, Business and Professional classes, Trade Unions and all the interest groups that have persistently pursued their narrow self-interests at the expense of the common and long-term good of the state would be temporarily taken out of the equation albeit for some considerable time. Professional administrators without local bias would run the state for the time period mentioned above.
There is nothing to be ashamed of in all of this. Local issues such as Art, Culture, Tourism, Irish Language, Inland Fisheries and Postage Stamp design could remain under the control of Dáil Eireann.
At the end of this period we would emerge a stronger, mature nation able and deserving of self-respect and international respect.

The success of this transitional model could become a beacon for other post-colonial countries such as Nigeria, Zimbabwe.
 

macdarawhitfield

Active member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
193
What is proposed is that Ireland becomes a protectorate of the European Union for a period of 70-100 years. A Secretariat composed of current parliamentarians and Civil servants from Germany and the Nordic EU countries would carry out the functions of Government with recourse to the European Commission/Parliament as required. Local issues such as Arts, Culture, Irish Language, Inland Fisheries and Postage Stamp design could remain under the control of Dáil Eireann.

The evidence of the last 87 years suggests that we have only survived as a result of periodic mass emigration in spite of having avoided many of the calamities that the rest of Europe endured in this period. Our current economic situation indicates that we will be returning to this over the next 20 years. Are we really mature enough to govern ourselves given our history as a colony and our rather unsuccessful post-colonial experience to date?

The gombeenism and greed in the political establishment (especially Fianna Fáil), IBEC, Business and Professional classes, Trade Unions and all the interest groups that have persistently pursued their narrow self-interests at the expense of the common and long-term good of the state would be temporarily taken out of the equation albeit for some considerable time. Professional administrators without local bias would run the state for the time period mentioned above.
There is nothing to be ashamed of in all of this. Local issues such as Art, Culture, Tourism, Irish Language, Inland Fisheries and Postage Stamp design could remain under the control of Dáil Eireann.
At the end of this period we would emerge a stronger, mature nation able and deserving of self-respect and international respect.

The success of this transitional model could become a beacon for other post-colonial countries such as Nigeria, Zimbabwe.
Sounds cool,apart from the Irish Language,I'd hand that over to the Welsh Assembly.They seem to be good at that.Where do I sign?
 

st333ve

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
2,104
Typical slave mentality.

Ofcourse Ireland can run its own affairs,stop looking around for mummy and get on with it.
 

Nils

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
66
To be honest:
There's not much of a choice involved from here. Ireland will run out of money at some stage in the next year or so. I don't think we will be allowed to go bust. But I couldn't guess the shape of the bail out.

Is it possible Britain will be the white knight and not Europe (too burdened down by Central & Eastern European issues to bail out Ireland)? Or if not a direct bail out, Ireland still ends up with a currency pegged to Sterling rather than the Euro. Back to the future.

The only thing that I can see saving Ireland from a serious crisis at this point is if serious inflation kicks in.
 
Last edited:

Murra

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
350
Sad to say, I have to agree with this. Unless Ireland can quickly (within the next couple of years) be seen to pull itself out of this mess (created by those listed), then what other option would we have?

It's very sad though. Its not what our forefathers and mothers fought for.
 

peadarmc

Active member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
178
You're having a laugh to stir some debate are you not?

as in, you're not being serious? to do such would be a slap in the face to all who gave their lives in a long and bloody struggle for the right to elect members to our own Parliament and decide our own laws! Ludicrous idea!
 

Mitsui

Active member
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
121
The evidence of the last 87 years suggests that we have only survived as a result of periodic mass emigration in spite of having avoided many of the calamities that the rest of Europe endured in this period. Our current economic situation indicates that we will be returning to this over the next 20 years.
Your suggested remedy has never actually occured to me as such, but your analysis as quoted above chimes remarkably well with my depressing study of post-Independence history. The deeper one goes into its innards (so to speak) the more vomitous it seems to become. The fact of corruption (though never as nakedly financial as in recent decades) seems the only constant... that and the contempt for Joe & Josephine Public.

No doubt you'll get some mouth-foaming reactions to this post, but as I say your analysis seems pretty spot on. It would be food for thought except that, if they knew our history too, no suitable or self-respecting mainland managerial folk would touch us with a bargepole. Most of them seized the opportunity for basic reform of their own countries at the end of WWII: they've moved on to the present. We're still a gombeen nation, and as of now there seems little or no hope that we'll ever change.
 

Murra

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
350
Might be worth running a poll on this one?
 

Gruffalo

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
500
You're having a laugh to stir some debate are you not?

as in, you're not being serious? to do such would be a slap in the face to all who gave their lives in a long and bloody struggle for the right to elect members to our own Parliament and decide our own laws! Ludicrous idea!
Well said. These pessimistic, woe is me clowns are really starting to get on my nerves. Yeah we are going through a tough period but it is nothing compared to what our forefathers went through. We will get through this, albeit with a few scars, and we will rise again. Such is life.
 

Nils

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
66
Well said. These pessimistic, woe is me clowns are really starting to get on my nerves. Yeah we are going through a tough period but it is nothing compared to what our forefathers went through. We will get through this, albeit with a few scars, and we will rise again. Such is life.
The problem might be: what if the numbers don't stack up for that sort of rhetoric to walk?
As far as I know the figures are something along the lines of Ireland spending 55bn a year with 30-odd billion income. How long can these type of figures continue without somebody owning a bit of you?
 

Gruffalo

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
500
The problem might be: what if the numbers don't stack up for that sort of rhetoric to walk?
As far as I know the figures are something along the lines of Ireland spending 55bn a year with 30-odd billion income. How long can these type of figures continue without somebody owning a bit of you?
Nobody said it was easy and massive corrections need to be made but given our predicament, these defeatists are as useful as a condom in a convent.
 

Nils

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
66
Nobody said it was easy and massive corrections need to be made but given our predicament, these defeatists are as useful as a condom in a convent.
It's easy to say "condom in a convent". It's a good laugh. But what is your plan to save 20bn? I can't see how it can be done to be honest.
 

peadarmc

Active member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
178
It's easy to say "condom in a convent". It's a good laugh. But what is your plan to save 20bn? I can't see how it can be done to be honest.
If we have to borrow we have to borrow but this country and this hard won freedom that we fought for for centuries does not come with a price tag!
We got ourselves into this mess and we, the collective people of this nation, have to get ourselves out of it by whatever means we can, but that does not and never will amount to the surrender of our democracy and right to self-determination!
 

Herodotus

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
305
Typical slave mentality.

Ofcourse Ireland can run its own affairs,stop looking around for mummy and get on with it.
Nail on the head. Even though we have a incompetent government we have had many great ones in the past. First inter-party government, the Lemass government of the 60's, The rainbow government and FF 1997-2002 when Ireland was an expanding economy with none of this building rubbish.

Ireland will rise again.
 

Gruffalo

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
500
It's easy to say "condom in a convent". It's a good laugh. But what is your plan to save 20bn? I can't see how it can be done to be honest.
Tits on a bull. See I have a back up too. You cannot see how it can be done, I am not the one with the plan, thats what is going to have to come from Leinster House. I know it is not easy to have any faith in them but they are going to have come with some decisions and no matter how tough they are we are going to have to suck it up and take it on the chin. We are in this mess for many different reasons but one of these is the fact that we have allowed successive Governments to buy our vote with dishonest taxation. We have effectively had a free ride on this one and now it is time to pay the piper.

While I dont have anymore facts and figures that the defeatists, I will never ever give up on my country. To do so would be to piss on the memories of our forefathers and to be frank about it, I would rather die than do that. Whatever pain and suffering is to come, bring it on and lets suffer together, get through it together and rebuild together. That is what Ireland has always done and that is what we need to again. And if some people do not want to do that then they should head for the airport because we are better off without them.
 

Colonel Kurtz

Active member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
122
To be honest:
There's not much of a choice involved from here. Ireland will run out of money at some stage in the next year or so. I don't think we will be allowed to go bust. But I couldn't guess the shape of the bail out.

Is it possible Britain will be the white knight and not Europe (too burdened down by Central & Eastern European issues to bail out Ireland)? Or if not a direct bail out, Ireland still ends up with a currency pegged to Sterling rather than the Euro. Back to the future.

The only thing that I can see saving Ireland from a serious crisis at this point is if serious inflation kicks in.
Eh?, Why won't we "be allowed" to go bust? Who is going to stop us?
That mentality is bizarre. "Printing money is the solution" seems to be a part of the whole sad malady. It is astonishing really.
 

Nils

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
66
What is your best guess about what will happen then to close this massive deficit? Rhetoric is all very well. But it doesn't get you out of insolvency.
 

peadarmc

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Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
178
What is your best guess about what will happen then to close this massive deficit? Rhetoric is all very well. But it doesn't get you out of insolvency.
And neither will "selling" an independence, democracy and right to self- governance and self-determination that our forefathers sacrificed their very lives for!
 

Nils

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
66
Eh?, Why won't we "be allowed" to go bust? Who is going to stop us?
That mentality is bizarre. "Printing money is the solution" seems to be a part of the whole sad malady. It is astonishing really.
The reason I think we won't be allowed to go bust is because we are part of the Euro area and thus we would be damaging more than ourselves if we went under. I imagine, if there are funds available, such a spectacle would be avoided. Whatever about companies like Lehman, wouldn't the likes of Ireland going bust really spook the markets?

I'm not pretending to be an expert, mind, just an opinion.
 
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