Is Ireland ignoring FGM?

ger12

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thejournal.ie are reporting today that 4000 females in Ireland are estimated to have undergone FGM yet there has been no prosecution since The Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Act 2012 came into effect making it a criminal offence for someone resident in Ireland to perform FGM. The maximum penalty under all sections of this new law is a fine or imprisonment for up to 14 years or both.

It is also a criminal offence for someone resident in Ireland to take a girl to another country to undergo FGM.

Is it a lack of resources or will in relation to this anomaly?

No one has ever been convicted of female genital mutilation in Ireland

Edit - that 4000 figure I suspect relates to females living here who were subjected to FGM, not necessarily in Ireland and many before the legislation.
 
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Lumpy Talbot

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No
I guess there are some practical difficulties- I wonder whether it is a question of certain minorities not presenting at doctor's surgeries and therefore the practice is difficult to spot.

I would suggest though that there should be obligations on doctors when seeing evidence of FGM in young girls to report it to the Gardai for prosecution of the parents.
 

livingstone

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thejournal.ie are reporting today that 4000 females in Ireland are estimated to have undergone FGM yet there has been no prosecution since The Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Act 2012 came into effect making it a criminal offence for someone resident in Ireland to perform FGM. The maximum penalty under all sections of this new law is a fine or imprisonment for up to 14 years or both.

It is also a criminal offence for someone resident in Ireland to take a girl to another country to undergo FGM.

Is it a lack of resources or will in relation to this anomaly?

No one has ever been convicted of female genital mutilation in Ireland
In terms of assessing the enforcement of the Act, the 4000 figure is potentially misleading. The article doesn't state how many of those 4000 underwent FGM prior to the law being commenced in September 2012, or how many were carried out outside the State in circumstances not covered by the Act.

I have no doubt that there has been some FGM in Ireland since September 2012. But the 4000 figure is not a valid reference point in terms of assessing the extent of activity which is criminalised by the Act.

It is, unfortunately, a difficult crime to detect and prove, so some lag between rates of FGM and prosecution for FGM (as with almost any other crime) is to be expected. But without knowing the rate of activity, we can't see the extent of any shortcomings in how the Act is being applied.
 

livingstone

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I guess there are some practical difficulties- I wonder whether it is a question of certain minorities not presenting at doctor's surgeries and therefore the practice is difficult to spot.

I would suggest though that there should be obligations on doctors when seeing evidence of FGM in young girls to report it to the Gardai for prosecution of the parents.
I think you're right, in the same way that they should report any other signs of abuse.

It's always a little bit dangerous , though, in my view to do that given that the risk is that children simply aren't brought to doctors where parents perceive a risk of being reported.
 

ger12

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Do teachers have a role to play in detecting FMG victims?
 

livingstone

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Do teachers have a role to play in detecting FMG victims?
The same as they do in detecting any other abuse of children. I'm not sure what signs might be apparent to a teacher to suggest a girl might have been subject to FGM, but certainly if they do have reason to suspect it, they ought would, I think, have the same obligations as they do for suspicions of any other type of abuse.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Do teachers have a role to play in detecting FMG victims?
Fraught with difficulties I should imagine... most teachers would avoid getting embroiled in anything like this issue as they'd get no thanks for it.

My own feeling is that there are specialist 'cutters' operating in certain minority groups and they won't be caught until such time as the Gardai have people on the inside in those communities.

Detecting the cutters would be the main thing and arresting them with the tools of their trade in their possession and with people prepared to testify.
 

GDPR

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I seem to remember at least two other freds on this subject over the last year. Pretty identical too.
 

Happycamping

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4000 is a shocking number to have taken place in the country. There really should be a zero tolerance policy on n such a horrendous practice.
 

4horsemen

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I guess there are some practical difficulties- I wonder whether it is a question of certain minorities not presenting at doctor's surgeries and therefore the practice is difficult to spot.

I would suggest though that there should be obligations on doctors when seeing evidence of FGM in young girls to report it to the Gardai for prosecution of the parents.
There is surely a legal obligation on any professional healthcare, education etc worker to report child abuse. What clearer evidence of child abuse could one have than FGM?
 
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I seem to remember at least two other freds on this subject over the last year. Pretty identical too.
One of them, opened in September, reported an arrest and the preparation of a file by the DPP.
 

cunnyfunt

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thejournal.ie are reporting today that 4000 females in Ireland are estimated to have undergone FGM yet there has been no prosecution since The Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Act 2012 came into effect making it a criminal offence for someone resident in Ireland to perform FGM. The maximum penalty under all sections of this new law is a fine or imprisonment for up to 14 years or both.

It is also a criminal offence for someone resident in Ireland to take a girl to another country to undergo FGM.

Is it a lack of resources or will in relation to this anomaly?

No one has ever been convicted of female genital mutilation in Ireland
Lefty libs will cry louder about the racial profiling of the monsters responsible for such acts, than their children who suffer the abuse. We live in a fukked up world.
 

GDPR

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Complaint and evidence to prosecute. Are there any cases to date on this?
 

silverharp

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their culture boss! if it happens to a girl born here the parents should be deported when the kids or adults and be denied an right to an old age pension etc. or the whole family deported if discovered.
 
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There is surely a legal obligation on any professional healthcare, education etc worker to report child abuse. What clearer evidence of child abuse could one have than FGM?
If performed (and I hate to use this word) skillfully and the child is allowed adequate time to recover, surely it is anything but obvious.

If performed during school holidays it might never be noticed.
 

Felixness

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It should be mandatory for all medical professionals and teaching staff who suspect FGM to report it and follow up the cases. Realistically though, FGM is easily hidden if the child is too terrified to report it and if the child doesn't receive a pelvic exam. Routine gynecological exams are not the norm in Ireland so it's very easy for this barbaric practice to slip under the radar.
 

elliebee

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In terms of assessing the enforcement of the Act, the 4000 figure is potentially misleading. The article doesn't state how many of those 4000 underwent FGM prior to the law being commenced in September 2012, or how many were carried out outside the State in circumstances not covered by the Act.

I have no doubt that there has been some FGM in Ireland since September 2012. But the 4000 figure is not a valid reference point in terms of assessing the extent of activity which is criminalised by the Act.

It is, unfortunately, a difficult crime to detect and prove, so some lag between rates of FGM and prosecution for FGM (as with almost any other crime) is to be expected. But without knowing the rate of activity, we can't see the extent of any shortcomings in how the Act is being applied.
FGM is an abominable crime committed against young girls. How on earth can it be a difficult crime to detect? The evidence is plain to see.

I accept your point that this crime may have been committed before the young children came into the country therefore I would suggest that before a family is awarded citizenship, or in fact at the application stage, they would be obliged to disclose which (if any) of their young girls have already been subjected to this barbarity. Obviously what's done at that stage is already done but in order to alleviate any future suffering of the girl measures should be put in place to undo as far as possible the damage inflicted.

If after citizenship has been granted and these crimes come to light following new births, both parents should be arrested and severely punished.

We cannot permit the laws of civility and decency in our country be trumped by a barbaric culture. It is absolutely outrageous.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I absolutely agree that FGM where detected should result in charges of GBH and treated as seriously as any injury inflicted in order to deface or disfigure.

It is a horrendous and barbaric practice and should have no place whatsoever in a community in Ireland.
 


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