Is it now incumbent on the Irish Government to create a White Paper on Irish Unity?

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,091
Oh, go away.

What's part of the GFA cannot undermine it; what isn't, can.
No I won't go away.

I'm sorry if I started a topic which has upset you. In which case, I politely suggest you go away.

What the Joint Committee discussed in their report is essentially what I'd like to see as part of a White Paper.
 


ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,091
Implementing the GFA is the business of Ireland, the UK, the EU, the USA and the UN all of whom are co-signatories or stake-holders. Ireland would be in breach if it made any move over and beyond what the Treaty says - it is wholly up to the people of NI to decide their own future either within the Republic or without.

The GFA is the most significant British Treaty since the Treaty of Windsor, and that has never been abrogated. (Check it up).
Of course it is up to the people of NI.

But a responsible government in the South should have a plan on record in the event of a vote for Unity. You know, so people know what they are voting themselves into?
 

Breanainn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
2,899
Of course, it wouldn't be ultra vires for individual political parties to produce policy papers on the topic, as FF did a few years ago.
 

Boy M5

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,420
Nobody with any sense wants a border poll at the moment. First we have to see how Brexit shakes out and second it would probably fail.

Never interfere with your enemy when he's in the proces of making a mistake.
Spot on.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
Of course it is up to the people of NI.

But a responsible government in the South should have a plan on record in the event of a vote for Unity. You know, so people know what they are voting themselves into?
What would they plan for? Would this Dept publish briefing papers on what Northern Irish people should expect if they vote Yes?

Are you so politically tone-deaf you think this would help anyone?
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,091
What would they plan for? Would this Dept publish briefing papers on what Northern Irish people should expect if they vote Yes?

Are you so politically tone-deaf you think this would help anyone?
You are seizing on one aspect within the OP. I also suggested a white paper and in fact was the subject of the OPs title.

It would for example, suggest ways of protecting minority rights.
 

Boy M5

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,420
No I won't go away.

I'm sorry if I started a topic which has upset you. In which case, I politely suggest you go away.

What the Joint Committee discussed in their report is essentially what I'd like to see as part of a White Paper.

How about a microwavable white paper?

One that is not published but is fully prepared including taking soundings and scenario planning?

The DFA are a good outfit. Vlad only looks good because of them. I suspect the DFA are already drawing one up.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,091
There's a process agreed by the vast majority of the population by popular vote. Now that the UK government seem incapable of upholding the GFA it is incumbent on the Irish government to do exactly the opposite and defed the integrity of that agreement in any and all circumstances.

So, no.
The integrity of that document was thrown out with the bath water when T.May went into government with the DUP and proclaimed herself a Unionist.
 

Carlos Danger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
27,558
Website
www.youtube.com
You are seizing on one aspect within the OP. I also suggested a white paper and in fact was the subject of the OPs title.

It would for example, suggest ways of protecting minority rights.
How about money?

What sort of dowry should be expected?

Would that be in the white paper?
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,091
How about a microwavable white paper?

One that is not published but is fully prepared including taking soundings and scenario planning?

The DFA are a good outfit. Vlad only looks good because of them. I suspect the DFA are already drawing one up.
You'd hope so.

But as I understand it, there must be a vote simultaneously in the South if there is a referendum in the North. Would making such a White Paper publicly available merely present the government's hand to the Southern electorate?
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
55,059
The integrity of that document was thrown out with the bath water when T.May went into government with the DUP and proclaimed herself a Unionist.
Which makes my point for me.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
You are seizing on one aspect within the OP. I also suggested a white paper and in fact was the subject of the OPs title.

It would for example, suggest ways of protecting minority rights.
The ECHR is directly implemented into NI law, because of the GFA, which is true neither of the UK nor of Ireland.

What special suggestions do you think Ireland has to make which go beyond that?
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
55,059
What is the alternative? Vote for unification without a proper public consultation?
Sigh.

  1. Border poll carried.
  2. Consultation.
  3. Wording of ref down here.
  4. Ref down here passed.
  5. Reunification process begins.

In that order.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
55,059
The ECHR is directly implemented into NI law, because of the GFA, which is true neither of the UK nor of Ireland.

What special suggestions do you think Ireland has to make which go beyond that?
Unicorns for all.
 

Breanainn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
2,899
Sigh.

  1. Border poll carried.
  2. Consultation.
  3. Wording of ref down here.
  4. Ref down here passed.
  5. Reunification process begins.

I that order.
The problem with that is both referenda have to be held on the same day, as the GFA referenda were.
 
D

Deleted member 51920

Certainly no-one in RoI wants a referendum within the next decade, but if the next Stormont election produces a nationalist majority, it may be thrust upon us, as both votes have to be held simultaneously. Much like the All-Ireland Brexit fora recently, that may be the time to resurrect the New Ireland Forum, but expand its remit to include civic organisations and business representatives to find an agreed approach and roadpath.

Of course we do - why wouldn't we?
The important point of this thread is that Unionists need to know what to expect when a UI comes about
They are not exactly going to be massacred like as if the Arabs took over Israel (a debate for another thread)
But they quite rightly would want clarity on the important issues for them
The last thing we want it to present them with another Brexit type referendum when they don't know what they are voting for
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,846
Very interesting topic. Whatever work or research done, clearly must not impinge on GFA and NI decides it's future whether remain or exit. I think stats and eagle are correct to point out that GFA is and will remain the only show in town. If a border poll and if an exit vote, we all can and should take the time necessary to get it right. Good OP, and ideally I'd like all parties to set out their thoughts.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top