Is it time for a new political system, new political parties?

bad dog

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
1
Are any of our current political parties suitable to run the country, do we really want our country to be run by corrupt parties within a corrupt political system?

Edited quote from Finfacts
'Nepotism is a common characteristic in Political Ireland. In Ireland, the top three politicians - Taoiseach (Prime Minister), Tánaiste (Deputy Prime Minster) and Finance Minister, took their fathers' seat in parliament, as did the Leader of the Opposition. The Finance Minister has also a brother and an aunt in the Dáil (Lower House). Fianna Fáil has a family of three in the Dáil - the Kitts - and one of them succeeded to their late father's seat. Former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern and his brother Noel are TDs and the father of the Andrews brothers, was a member of the Dáil. On the Fine Gael side, Richard Bruton and his brother former Taoiseach John and several others who succeeded relatives, are beneficiaries of the nepotism system. In 2004, when TDs were precluded from membership of local authorities, relatives took their place.'

Is nepotism a form of political corruption? Wikipedia suggests the following,

'Forms of corruption vary, but include bribery, extortion, cronyism, nepotism, patronage, graft, and embezzlement.'

So by definition the structure of our political system is corrupt, therefore can one expect the persons within the system not to be corrupt? Everyone knows of those little rezoning issues at a local level, the embezzling of public money for a 5 minute limousine journey etc. Yet election after election we vote for these people, creating the political class. Even the 'new' politicians endevour to secure their off springs future from the onset, Donkey Jackie Healy Rae has ensured his sons have their places, Michael no doubt being primed to take over Jackies position as a TD for South Kerry.

So do we continue to support the main parties or is it time to draw a line in the sand and start afresh with a new political system, (for example; the part time dail sits for approx 90 days per year as it did when Ireland has a slow moving economy, the donkey and cart days, now we need a full time dail.) , new parties and a new code of ethics.
 


DCon

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
5,889
Please reform both.
 

Pauli

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,181
If you are to try and dig Ireland out of the hole it has been driven into, start with the Constitution. Reform of the political system must be so fundamental, so radical that it has to be constitutionally enshrined. There is no use tinkering with a system which, by its very structural composition, is no longer fit for purpose.

Some of the reform I would like to see requires such radical steps. Abolition of our bi-cameral system (goodbye Seanad), tax-raising powers to be given to county councils (on the basis that if you are much closer to the people who are spending public money, they will be more accountable) constitutional restrictions on the power of central government, particularly on tax issues are just some of the things I believe are needed.

In other words, I think Ireland needs a total restructuring on the way governance operates. And for that, constiututional reform is needed.
 

FutureTaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
7,980
Website
greatdearleader.blogspot.com
I have always called for a party-system that replaced Civil War politics with the politics of ideas. I believe in the market, and that applies to ideologies aswell. The voter, acting as a consumer, should have a choice between opposing policies and worldviews. Instead, what we get is a cosy consensus on issues like the EU and immigration, where the elites close ranks to quash debate and dissent. Until this changes, we are doomed to return to where we are now again and again and again.
 
A

Asi-Irish

God Yes!

I am sick of the current batch of muppets and I really don't believe that there are more than perhaps a dozen TDs who deserve to be representing the people.

The Civil War politics thing astounds me. My father refuses to vote for anyone who is not in Fianna Fail, and he will not be shaken. That's right, he is one of the fools who helps to keep these b@stards in power. However, it ends with his generation.

We need new parties and new faces in the Dail.

Hopefully, by the next general election, most of the TDs currently in the Dail will be banished from political and public life forever.
 

TradCat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Messages
1,989
It's going to be very hard to replace them. Look how many parties have come and gone. FF and FG adapt easily because they have no core beliefs.
 

Propforward

Active member
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
149
It's going to be very hard to replace them. Look how many parties have come and gone. FF and FG adapt easily because they have no core beliefs.
Since when was "fukk u, pay me" not a core belief?

Parties have come and gone but there has never been an anger in this country and such a will to change.
I wouldn't over estimate it but i would say that 20-25% of the population would have a "none of the above" attitude and would be willing to support a party that stood for accountability, political and public sector reform and had no ties to builders, banks or other vested interests
 

bormotello

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
12,294
Since when was "fukk u, pay me" not a core belief?

Parties have come and gone but there has never been an anger in this country and such a will to change.
I wouldn't over estimate it but i would say that 20-25% of the population would have a "none of the above" attitude and would be willing to support a party that stood for accountability, political and public sector reform and had no ties to builders, banks or other vested interests
This party will have to stay against public service and bank unions
 

blinding

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
17,399
Has there ever been any major political change in any country without shooting (or hanging, Gulotine perhaps) a good number of the existing politicians. Alive politicians are extremely able at perserving the political system that has afforded them their power.
 

Jock_the_Waster

Active member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
165
If a strong fair person steps forward I will FIGHT for a dictatorship

This country needs a man like Colm McCarthy in charge for 5 years

sort all the self interest selfish me feiners right out.

stand Colm.
 

Chief-TP

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
8
The Center Left Right party! A party of individuals based on Human values and respect, spread across the political divide. Lets get the show on the road anyone interested?
 

Marascal

Member
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
8
Has there ever been any major political change in any country without shooting (or hanging, Gulotine perhaps) a good number of the existing politicians. Alive politicians are extremely able at perserving the political system that has afforded them their power.
Yes - France did it to an extent. De Gaulle threw out the old system and brought in a presidential model. Of course, they also invented the Guillotine...

On the general thread subject I have become a passionate believer of reform in Ireland over the last few years and I agree with the general slant of the posts above.
 
Last edited:

dlohan

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
23
The Center Left Right party! A party of individuals based on Human values and respect, spread across the political divide. Lets get the show on the road anyone interested?
What is the consensus on these "Human Values"? Maybe you should make a list of what you understand this to be and see if everyone has the same understanding?
 

cactusflower

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
1,278
So far we have calls for a right, centre right party and a right wing dictatorship. None of those would solve the problems of corruption and inequality. That requires social revolution and a permanent shift in power from the minority to the majority.

We need a party that will work for that.
 

Prester Jim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
9,975
Id like to see part of the American system as part of ours.

Specifically, the part where the head of our departments, are headed up by the most accomplished people in that field.

For example, someone with a background who understands it. In our case we have a minster who has been elected by the people but with no expertise in the the brief they are given. We shell out massive amounts of money to get these experts to actually recommend what should be done anyway.

These elected individuals should direct the course of our country, but should not be handling the brief for specific areas outside of their know how. Transport, Health, trade and employment, finance etc.

I know it is a can of worms to discuss fully but you get the general gist.
Good point in general but problematic in reality.
think of the situation in the states where the expert in finance comes from Goldman Sachs and he proceeds to reduce regulation so his pals can take more risks.

the secretary of the environment from an oil company and many other examples.

Dr. O'Reilly as minister of health when he fought for the outrageous medical card charges we are living with now.
it would take an exceptional individual to fight for either side depending on their position
there are too few exceptional people who want to get involved in politics.
 

Jock_the_Waster

Active member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
165
So far we have calls for a right, centre right party and a right wing dictatorship. None of those would solve the problems of corruption and inequality. That requires social revolution and a permanent shift in power from the minority to the majority.

We need a party that will work for that.
my right wing dictatorship is based upon affordable compassion, it is not based upon the broken western debt cycle

sustainable people driven, the strong carry the weak BUT dead weight is off loaded...
 

hurling_lad

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
2,489
One problem with the existing and, I reckon, any new set of politicians is the shallow political talent pool - no matter what ideology or values you would like to see in government, you will need competent politicians to run the country and, tbh, we have less than a dozen of these in the Dáil between all the parties - not even a full cabinet.

There was an article in the Economist recently about this problem in the UK. The causes of their problem appears to be somewhat different, but the effect is similar - lots of MPs who are not suitable for leadership positions.
 

netron

Active member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
225
my right wing dictatorship is based upon affordable compassion, it is not based upon the broken western debt cycle

sustainable people driven, the strong carry the weak BUT dead weight is off loaded...
Closest previous model of that would be Pinochet's Chile ( but without the death squad stuff of course..) - Pinochet's economic policies turned the country from basket case to highly developed.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top