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Is it time for an ordinary homeowners party in this country ?


nonpartyboy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
6,857
Following on from yesterdays piecemeal theft of a little piece of everybody in the countries home, is it time for a party to represent and look after the interests of the majority of owner occupiers in the country.

http://www.rte.ie/documents/news/local-property-tax.pdf

Property Tax to be charged at 0.18% of house value - RTÉ News

.18% charge......4% interest on deferral, 8% interest on default.

And for what ?

Local services are non existent outside urban aera's, this is to pay for highly paid administrators, county managers, chief fire officers, senior planners, senior engineers, human resource heads in every council in the land....

So minister reilly can overrun his budget by €400million and minister burton by €600million.....is it a pissing contest or something.
 

Radix

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
10,031
Homeowners?

Debtholders.
 
B

Boggle

Not sure about homeowners but a party representing PAYE workers would be better in my opinion.
 

Franzoni

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,469
Homeowners?

Debtholders.

Exactly.....you owe a grand you worry

You owe 100 grand THEY worry.......

Now multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of mortgage holders...

We have a weapon if people decide to get some bottle,stick together and use it...........
 

damus

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
23,671
The 4% tax deferral on the estate of dead people is not legal under EU law. You cannot impose "criminal sanctions" on the deceased, and the leading caselaw is Bendenoun - v - France (12547/86) with AP. MP and JP – v – Switzerland (1997) specifically concerning a deceased taxpayer.

Revenue has stopped imposing death penalty | What's on | ACCA
 
B

Boggle

Exactly.....you owe a grand you worry

You owe 100 grand THEY worry.......

Now multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of mortgage holders...

We have a weapon if people decide to get some bottle,stick together and use it...........
You are correct in this. If people really want to block all this they just have to threaten a mortgage strike en-masse.
Get the numbers and they'll do as they are told.

No need for marches or protests as they are easily ignored.
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,275
Twitter
I have a life.
It was time a long time ago for the people of Ireland to stand up to the politicians. The arrogant attitudes of the Haughey types were well known to all. But the other side just waited for their 'turn' at the trough. They certaintly were'nt going to change the mindset.

So we have been run by Haughey, Bertie and Cowens for decades and not one single group ever got themselves in order to stand up to the two civil war groups. None worth their salt anyway. A couple of commies, then Connelliests, then socialist party and now we have Labour. Well done us.

You say a group of 'owner occupiers'. Do you really think we are capable of banding together and agreeing on anything? The unemployed can't organise themselves and there are nearly 500'000 of them. Most will never a chance to work again. Ever. They put no one up for the last election.

Homeowners United Group, I'd love to see it. But my great grandfather walked in the shadow of Collins / deValera / bertie / Labour so I can't join yours.
 

Franzoni

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,469
You are correct in this. If people really want to block all this they just have to threaten a mortgage strike en-masse.
Get the numbers and they'll do as they are told.

No need for marches or protests as they are easily ignored.

Money is all they care about.......hit them where it hurts ......not some poor sap on guard duty outside the Dail....................
 

Spanner Island

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
24,203
Until we get to my Nirvana of having only two taxes, income and VAT with multiple levels of both, then I'm not opposed to property tax in the interim.

I do think the model they've chosen is complete boll*cks however and that it is wide open to abuse.

If you accept that all money/wealth eventually ends up in the possession of a person then income tax should be sufficient to tax people's earnings...

And then you balance that with VAT which would be a user pays type tax... with essentials either VAT free or minimal while you tax things like Ferraris etc. at up to 50%..

No band of income tax or VAT rate should be above 50% imo...

And then you abolish all other taxes... including corporation tax which would get up the noses of our so called EU 'partners' nicely...

Of course there are so many vested interests embedded in the overly complex tax system now (accountants, auditors, solicitors etc. etc.) that I'm sure there'd be huge opposition to this... but f*** them is what I'd say...

In addition... give a monetary value to all welfare, benefits, perks, allowances etc. and make everyone file an annual tax return and tax everyone who goes above the 'poverty' level... whatever that is in Ireland these days...

And make all Irish citizens pay tax on their global income like the Yanks do...

Tax should be simple and transparent, and there's no reason in the world why it cant' be made that way.
 

Franzoni

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,469
It was time a long time ago for the people of Ireland to stand up to the politicians. The arrogant attitudes of the Haughey types were well known to all. But the other side just waited for their 'turn' at the trough. They certaintly were'nt going to change the mindset.

So we have been run by Haughey, Bertie and Cowens for decades and not one single group ever got themselves in order to stand up to the two civil war groups. None worth their salt anyway. A couple of commies, then Connelliests, then socialist party and now we have Labour. Well done us.

You say a group of 'owner occupiers'. Do you really think we are capable of banding together and agreeing on anything? The unemployed can't organise themselves and there are nearly 500'000 of them. Most will never a chance to work again. Ever. They put no one up for the last election.

Homeowners United Group, I'd love to see it. But my great grandfather walked in the shadow of Collins / deValera / bertie / Labour so I can't join yours.
Burnout...with respect your missing the point a bit....

We never had so many people in debt before especially mortgage debt even in the 80's when the intrest rate went to 14%...

The banks are on a knife edge....a countrywide mortgage strike by a large number of people who are struggling would have more power than any march ...

They reckon 600,000 haven't paid the household charge...imaging if they went on mortgage and property tax strike...?
 

Potatoeman

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
Following on from yesterdays piecemeal theft of a little piece of everybody in the countries home, is it time for a party to represent and look after the interests of the majority of owner occupiers in the country.

http://www.rte.ie/documents/news/local-property-tax.pdf

Property Tax to be charged at 0.18% of house value - RTÉ News

.18% charge......4% interest on deferral, 8% interest on default.

And for what ?

Local services are non existent outside urban aera's, this is to pay for highly paid administrators, county managers, chief fire officers, senior planners, senior engineers, human resource heads in every council in the land....

So minister reilly can overrun his budget by €400million and minister burton by €600million.....is it a pissing contest or something.
Aren’t half of all mortgages debt free?
Would it be better of this money was taken in income tax increases? Do those that pay the most income tax benefit the most?
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Following on from yesterdays piecemeal theft of a little piece of everybody in the countries home, is it time for a party to represent and look after the interests of the majority of owner occupiers in the country.

http://www.rte.ie/documents/news/local-property-tax.pdf

Property Tax to be charged at 0.18% of house value - RTÉ News

.18% charge......4% interest on deferral, 8% interest on default.

And for what ?

Local services are non existent outside urban aera's, this is to pay for highly paid administrators, county managers, chief fire officers, senior planners, senior engineers, human resource heads in every council in the land....

So minister reilly can overrun his budget by €400million and minister burton by €600million.....is it a pissing contest or something.
The short answer is no.

The long answer is that political parties need some sort of coherent platform across an entire range of social and economic areas and this kind of cohesion will not be based on the simple fact of being a homeowner. You'll find that the group 'homeowner' consists of individuals some of whom are left-leaning, some right-leaning, others pragmatic, some nationalist, others with no interest in 'the national question, many politically apathetic. There simply wouldn't be enough 'ideological' cohesion to be able to forge a single platform.
 

cytex

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
3,424
wouldn't it be a better idea for this to turn into a lobby/protest group for home owners I cant see a political party just for homeowners getting any where .

However on the otherhand i really do think we need new party's in this country and it really doesnt matter where it would come from any new party is going to clean up if they can run enough people and get their policys out there simply because of the fact that they are not ff.fg.lab. As long as they do not have the same agenda as this political party.
 
G

Gimpanzee

You are correct in this. If people really want to block all this they just have to threaten a mortgage strike en-masse.
Get the numbers and they'll do as they are told.

No need for marches or protests as they are easily ignored.
Block all what? What you really mean is 'if people want someone else to pay instead of them'. Think it through and you end up either in some extremist fantasy make-believe world where everything is fixed after 'the whole rotten system is torn down' or whwere we are now
 

cytex

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
3,424
Block all what? What you really mean is 'if people want someone else to pay instead of them'. Think it through and you end up either in some extremist fantasy make-believe world where everything is fixed after 'the whole rotten system is torn down' or whwere we are now
No i think what he means is block people stealing property from you . FG.Lab.FF one party one dream to get rich off others backs.
 
B

Boggle

Block all what? What you really mean is 'if people want someone else to pay instead of them'. Think it through and you end up either in some extremist fantasy make-believe world where everything is fixed after 'the whole rotten system is torn down' or whwere we are now
Block property tax.
I don't care who pays as long as I'm not forced out of my home when I'm old because I don't earn enough to keep up with my neighbours fantasies about what their homes are worth.
 
G

Gimpanzee

Block property tax.
I don't care who pays as long as I'm not forced out of my home when I'm old because I don't earn enough to keep up with my neighbours fantasies about what their homes are worth.
eh? Forced out of your home? How do you figure that will happen? You can pay it from your estate when you pop your clogs.
 

cytex

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
3,424
eh? Forced out of your home? How do you figure that will happen? You can pay it from your estate when you pop your clogs.
At the moment gimpanzee but all it is going to take is one idiot party (and we got 3 of those) to reckon once the property market improves that they can get paid now for that to change add to the fact that it is going to rise up and up and it is pretty easy to see how you are going to be forced out of your home that you supposedly own.
 
B

Boggle

eh? Forced out of your home? How do you figure that will happen? You can pay it from your estate when you pop your clogs.
Wow, thanks for that.
I think I'd rather not have charges levied after I die... things will be tough enough for those I leave behind already without forcing them to sell what may or may not be their home.
 
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