• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Is it time the Catholic Church paid tax?


johnny365

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
14,367
The Catholic Church has many streams of income from mass collections to Priests getting donations for christenings, weddings offering masses etc. This country is in the midst of Austerity and poor and low paid workers in society are taking a hard hit. The Catholic Church has charitable status, should the Government look at changing this? The Catholic clergy have committed heinous crimes against the Irish people and Children in particular. Paying tax may show the people that they Church wants to contribute to Irish society? Is it time as a wealthy organisation like the Catholic Church showed solidarity with the Irish people and paid their faire share?
 

Expose the lot of them

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
20,944
The Catholic Church has many streams of income from mass collections to Priests getting donations for christenings, weddings offering masses etc. This country is in the midst of Austerity and poor and low paid workers in society are taking a hard hit. The Catholic Church has charitable status, should the Government look at changing this? The Catholic clergy have committed heinous crimes against the Irish people and Children in particular. Paying tax may show the people that they Church wants to contribute to Irish society? Is it time as a wealthy organisation like the Catholic Church showed solidarity with the Irish people and paid their faire share?
Sure how could they pay tax when they cannot afford to pay the staff.

Bishop Martin signed off on illegal pay cuts - Independent.ie

Bizarre ruling by the Rights Commissioner



A Rights Commissioner ruled that employment law was breached when the wage cuts were imposed on three workers without their agreement.

However, despite being found to be in the wrong, the commissioner ruled the archdiocese did not have to repay the staff because of its precarious financial position.

The staff involved in the case were hit with pay cuts despite refusing to sign a letter authorising the archdiocese to reduce their salaries.

The row is now set to deepen as the workers have lodged an appeal with the Employment Appeals Tribunal after failing to win compensation.

The pay cuts introduced by the archdiocese last year ranged from 5pc to 5.8pc for two-thirds of staff, while the higher paid workers took a reduction of between 8pc and 8.7pc.

Around 55 staff are employed in the archdiocese's Central Pastoral and Administrative Services section.

Even the lowest-paid staff in the archdiocese were not spared, with those earning less than €25,000 hit by a 5pc pay cut, in a bid to save €500,000.

Clerical assistant Maria Malone, accounts assistant Anne Smyth and secretary Mary Dent wanted the deduction imposed in January last year to be returned. It is worth in the region of €1,461 to €2,700 a year each, or between €28 and €52 a week.

t is understood that a fourth individual has also taken a case against the archdiocese in relation to the pay cut.

Rights Commissioner John Walsh said the workers' complaint that their wages were deducted without their agreement was "well founded".

He said there was a breach of the Payment of Wages Act, as there was no provision in their contracts that allowed the archdiocese to make any change to their terms and conditions of employment. In addition, the staff had not given their prior consent in writing for the pay cuts.

However, he said it was reasonable to make no award given the archdiocese's financial difficulties.


 

pippakin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
9,665
The Catholic Church has many streams of income from mass collections to Priests getting donations for christenings, weddings offering masses etc. This country is in the midst of Austerity and poor and low paid workers in society are taking a hard hit. The Catholic Church has charitable status, should the Government look at changing this? The Catholic clergy have committed heinous crimes against the Irish people and Children in particular. Paying tax may show the people that they Church wants to contribute to Irish society? Is it time as a wealthy organisation like the Catholic Church showed solidarity with the Irish people and paid their faire share?
Oh yes they should pay tax and back taxes for all the years they evaded it.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
The Catholic Church has many streams of income from mass collections to Priests getting donations for christenings, weddings offering masses etc. This country is in the midst of Austerity and poor and low paid workers in society are taking a hard hit. The Catholic Church has charitable status, should the Government look at changing this? The Catholic clergy have committed heinous crimes against the Irish people and Children in particular. Paying tax may show the people that they Church wants to contribute to Irish society? Is it time as a wealthy organisation like the Catholic Church showed solidarity with the Irish people and paid their faire share?
Should the rest of the clubs around the country pay tax on the donations made by their members? The RCC and other churches (don't know why you just single out one unless your sectarian?) pay tax where appropriate such as income from businesses, VAT, and individual priests and lay employees pay tax on their earnings.
 

off with their heads

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,052
did work for them over the years very hard to get money out of them feckers:evil:

god loves you but he needs money:cool:
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
(Tax) evasion suggests that where there was a tax liability, there was a concerted action to evade that liability.

What liability in Tax Law was evaded?
There needs to be a bat people get hit with, one side saying "avoid" and the other "evade". Beatings will continue until people understand the difference.

Basically the question is if religious institutions (You couldn't just do it to Catholic church) should be unregistered as charities. No, not for me.
 

Ryan Tubbs

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
3,660
The Catholic Church has many streams of income from mass collections to Priests getting donations for christenings, weddings offering masses etc.
Yeah, the church is just rolling in cash these days, from the throngs of people packing out churches at weekends :roll:

There was a piece written about these a few years ago that found that priests were living on €22,000 per annum. Churches are struggling to get the cash to cover basic maintenance. The lions share of surplus church assets have been sold to cover legal fees and compensation.

So what exactly is their "fair share"?
 

The OD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
11,432
Considering religion is really just a hobby taken way too far, I would say a resounding yes.

As for the CC being a 'charitable institution', that's hilarious.
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
Yeah people need to stop watching the Borgias and think of the math here. If they have to pay tax then they're entitled to social welfare. I'm guessing the local Imam ain't making that much.
 

benroe

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
10,407
The CC is not a charity, it is a global corporation with masses of prime real estate, palaces for gods sake!
It should be liable corporation tax and its "charitable works" written off.
I personally don't believe charity with strings attached is charity at all, and which would you deem more moral , someone who gives out of the goodness of their heart or someone who gives in order to be rewarded in the after life?
 

Cato

Moderator
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
20,561
Yeah people need to stop watching the Borgias and think of the math here. If they have to pay tax then they're entitled to social welfare. I'm guessing the local Imam ain't making that much.
Priests in parishes pay income tax as self-employed persons.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
There needs to be a bat people get hit with, one side saying "avoid" and the other "evade". Beatings will continue until people understand the difference.
+1,000,000
 

jackryan

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
3,695
The church should defo pay the property tax on dwellings used by bishops/priests/brothers/nuns.
 

pippakin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
9,665
(Tax) evasion suggests that where there was a tax liability, there was a concerted action to evade that liability.

What liability in Tax Law was evaded?
Eh, how do you "evade" tax, when you are not legally obliged to pay any more than you have already paid (Eg VAT etc)

Well done, you deserve a star,

Now, if that comment was made about an individual, you would be expected to back that comment up or face defamatory proceedings, unless it was true or just a mere opinion given without malice. But it's not so let us move on

So, any chance and attempt to offer examples of where they have evaded tax? Or as someone else, correctly, pointed out "avoid" tax liability. Maybe you are right, but please explain
I may have made the classic avoid/evade tax error and if so I do apologise but I'm not sure the RCC itself, individual clergy and perhaps other faiths have been honest about how much money they have, where it came from or where it eventually went. If they kept accounts and I suspect they kept very accurate accounts in places like the laundries were they scrutinised?

It seems to me there was considerable overlap and there might well be outstanding amounts. What some seem to be saying is that they were never asked but a lot of that was from ignorance and if I never paid tax because I was never asked I can't see the authorities finding that an acceptable excuse for not paying.
 

DaveM

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
16,033
No religious organisation, be that the RCC or any other, should be exempt from taxation.
 

The OD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
11,432
Oh how insightful of the new age of thinking. What a shame though that our people and government did not take control from day one in dealing with schools and hospitals . Maybe there would not have been such problems (doubt it, plenty of layity are up to their necks in sex scandal)



Maybe so, but, at least it was an informed statement

But hey, sure, you open up a building tomorrow in Smithfield and tell the Friars and later Fr McVerry (just two groups of many as an example) ,to rest up their feet, don't bother looking for funding and enjoy retirement , while you and your wonderful flock of Christians and do gooders, dish out food and clothes the the less well off, WHO WILL be out queing tomorrow for charity
]

What are you talking about?
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
No religious organisation, be that the RCC or any other, should be exempt from taxation.
Why should religious organisations be treated any differently to any other non profit civil organisation?

Like any other non-profit organisation they don't pay tax on donations made by their members, they do pay tax on business income and and on personal income earned from administering that organisation.
 

Glenshane4

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Messages
9,649
The Catholic Church has many streams of income from mass collections to Priests getting donations for christenings, weddings offering masses etc. This country is in the midst of Austerity and poor and low paid workers in society are taking a hard hit. The Catholic Church has charitable status, should the Government look at changing this? The Catholic clergy have committed heinous crimes against the Irish people and Children in particular. Paying tax may show the people that they Church wants to contribute to Irish society? Is it time as a wealthy organisation like the Catholic Church showed solidarity with the Irish people and paid their faire share?
Yes, the Catholic Church (like all other churches) should pay tax on its profits. Clergy of all churches should pay tax on their earnings.

Some Catholic clergy have committed crimes. Some clergy of other churches have committed crimes.

I hope that you are not suggesting that people should have to pay tax on donations or gifts which they receive. Not that such a prospect bothers me as I never receive gifts. Nobody loves me.
 

jo9jo

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2011
Messages
4,895
The Catholic Church has many streams of income from mass collections to Priests getting donations for christenings, weddings offering masses etc. This country is in the midst of Austerity and poor and low paid workers in society are taking a hard hit. The Catholic Church has charitable status, should the Government look at changing this? The Catholic clergy have committed heinous crimes against the Irish people and Children in particular. Paying tax may show the people that they Church wants to contribute to Irish society? Is it time as a wealthy organisation like the Catholic Church showed solidarity with the Irish people and paid their faire share?
No.

The government should introduce a church tax to be used to fund the Catholic Church.
The collection duringnthe offertry should be abolished.
Te church are helping a lot of people in Ireland today who are suffering from the crisis.
 
Top