Is it time to abolish the Seanad?

Is it time to abolish the Seanad?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 65.2%
  • No

    Votes: 31 34.8%

  • Total voters
    89
  • Poll closed .

sadmal

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
12,065
We had our chance to be rid of it but most voters couldn't be ar5ed to vote
Maybe it's best to let them just wither on the vine and eventually die out...another referendum would result in the same verdict because not enough cared one way or the other.
 


loner

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
8,092
The Seanad met yesterday afternoon after a lengthy holiday--sparse attendance.
The order of business was the first item followed by acommitee stage on a bill.
5amendments all in the names of 5 Sinn Fein senators came up --there was no Senator in attendance to move 4 of the amendments--when the5th was called one SF Senator arrived moved the amendment in some state of confusion and after some waffling withdrew the amendment.
I rest my case
 

Finbar10

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
2,673
In one way, the premise of the OP sounds reasonable. The Seanad is only of very marginal use. However, the same could be said about both Irish local government and the Irish Presidency.

I saw a study recently which ranked Ireland as having the 2nd weakest system of local government in Europe out of 38 countries (beaten only by Moldova) and it's only likely to get weaker; the new land development agency will probably end up taking over a lot of the building that used to be done by local authorities. We seem to like to set up national quangos on things like water, roads etc. and strip away powers from the local government. There was talk too recently of taking away zoning and planning powers from them also. I'm not sure we'd miss local government if we just left the civil servants running things locally (the county managers) in place.

Same with the Presidency. We go to all the rigmarole of having national elections and yet the role is more much powerless than other similar roles elsewhere.

We're at the point where we could simultaneously abolish local government, the Seanad and the Presidency, and I'm not sure anyone would really miss them (apart from the lower ranks of the political parties). That's a really poor state of affairs. I'd reckon we should empower and reform at least two out of the three of these (abolish the third then if people wish).
 

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
14,159
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
The Seanad met yesterday afternoon after a lengthy holiday--sparse attendance.
The order of business was the first item followed by acommitee stage on a bill.
5amendments all in the names of 5 Sinn Fein senators came up --there was no Senator in attendance to move 4 of the amendments--when the5th was called one SF Senator arrived moved the amendment in some state of confusion and after some waffling withdrew the amendment.
I rest my case
Children's Health Bill 2018:...: 19 Sep 2018: Seanad debates (KildareStreet.com)
 

Betson

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
17,923
A hex on all those morons who voted to keep this chamber.


Senate was briefly suspended because one member disagreed with the other on an issue.

And predictable the female member rushed straight to the misogyny card in a ridiculous attempt to claim sexism.

Speaking after the suspension, Fine Gael Senator Gabrielle McFadden said Clifford-Lee had done “a huge disservice to women by accusing any man who disagrees with her of misogyny”.

“Women are often mistreated or dismissed in society – she undermines all our struggle by making duplicitous accusations just to get attention for herself,” she tweeted.
seanad-misogyny-row-4353419-Nov2018/
 

Round tower

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
7,807
A hex on all those morons who voted to keep this chamber.


Senate was briefly suspended because one member disagreed with the other on an issue.

And predictable the female member rushed straight to the misogyny card in a ridiculous attempt to claim sexism.



seanad-misogyny-row-4353419-Nov2018/
One of the reasons why the Irish people f---ed up in not abolishing it, if she can't take a temark like that, she should really consider a career change.
 

BACKTOBASICS

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,340
One of the reasons why the Irish people f---ed up in not abolishing it, if she can't take a temark like that, she should really consider a career change.
As far as I can remember the wording to abolish the Senate was very vague and confusing - can anybody dig it up for us to see it again, as I would think many people were confused into voting the wrong way.
 

BACKTOBASICS

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,340
In one way, the premise of the OP sounds reasonable. The Seanad is only of very marginal use. However, the same could be said about both Irish local government and the Irish Presidency.

I saw a study recently which ranked Ireland as having the 2nd weakest system of local government in Europe out of 38 countries (beaten only by Moldova) and it's only likely to get weaker; the new land development agency will probably end up taking over a lot of the building that used to be done by local authorities. We seem to like to set up national quangos on things like water, roads etc. and strip away powers from the local government. There was talk too recently of taking away zoning and planning powers from them also. I'm not sure we'd miss local government if we just left the civil servants running things locally (the county managers) in place.

Same with the Presidency. We go to all the rigmarole of having national elections and yet the role is more much powerless than other similar roles elsewhere.

We're at the point where we could simultaneously abolish local government, the Seanad and the Presidency, and I'm not sure anyone would really miss them (apart from the lower ranks of the political parties). That's a really poor state of affairs. I'd reckon we should empower and reform at least two out of the three of these (abolish the third then if people wish).
You have to have accountability in all of these areas. Giving a County Manager full control is the worst option - they will spend willy-nilly (white elephant library in Dun Laoghaire), as they do now anyway as the County Councillors we elect are useless and only rubber stamp decisions taken by the Councils and County Manager, e.g. Redmond and Tierney - a recipe for reckless spending. And where is the public housing building policy gone to, with few homes now being built by the County Councils and any accommodation rapidly being given to illegal migrants immediately on their arrival - and this at the cost of indigenous homeless.

The people should always have control and insist on accountability and consequences in all areas of Government and the Public and Civic section.
 

Baron von Biffo

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
16,316
A hex on all those morons who voted to keep this chamber.


Senate was briefly suspended because one member disagreed with the other on an issue.

And predictable the female member rushed straight to the misogyny card in a ridiculous attempt to claim sexism.



seanad-misogyny-row-4353419-Nov2018/
The misogyny/sexism card is played reflexively nowadays. It's probably an inevitable consequence of gender quotas which see people who couldn't make it on merit being pushed forward because of their gender. When they fail at the job they can't blame themselves so they have to come up with another excuse.
 

FunkyBoogaloo

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
2,869
A hex on all those morons who voted to keep this chamber.
A hex?... as in, like, the cruciatus curse? :roll:


Had the government not attempted to wholly remove article 27 I would have happily voted to remove it.

As it was they did so I could not. I stand by that decision and am happy to defend it against such moronic statements as the one I've quoted above.
 

Betson

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
17,923
A hex?... as in, like, the cruciatus curse? :roll:


Had the government not attempted to wholly remove article 27 I would have happily voted to remove it.

As it was they did so I could not. I stand by that decision and am happy to defend it against such moronic statements as the one I've quoted above.
How is all that reform we were promised coming along , we had senators left right and centre coming up with reform plans towards the end of the campaign. Did you really buy that one?
 

FunkyBoogaloo

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
2,869
How is all that reform we were promised coming along , we had senators left right and centre coming up with reform plans towards the end of the campaign. Did you really buy that one?
No. I longed for reform - still do - but guessed the coffin-dodging/hangers-on who infest the corridors of power would revert to type once the referendum was defeated. And they did.

I voted against the proposal simply because of the government's attempt to completely remove the Article I mentioned.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
34,240
It was not confusing, it was basicaly a question
Do u want to abolish the Seanad

YES
No
Most voters couldn't be ar5ed which is why we are still paying for the pig sty.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
34,240
How is all that reform we were promised coming along , we had senators left right and centre coming up with reform plans towards the end of the campaign. Did you really buy that one?
No, I'm happy to say I voted for abolition, pity the majority of voters couldn't be ar5ed.
 

GJG

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
3,145
Website
blog.hereshow.ie
How is all that reform we were promised coming along , we had senators left right and centre coming up with reform plans towards the end of the campaign. Did you really buy that one?
The proof that those proposals were insincere was the fact that the same campaign - often the same individual - advocated 'reforms' that were plainly contradictory - for example they claimed that reforms would both make the Seanad more democratic, and also reserve places for minority interests; they said that it would not be just a talking shop, but would not have the power to challenge the Dáil; they said that it was necessary, but couldn't explain why nobody had worked out what it was necessary for in the 80 years of its existence.

But the biggest lie was the claim that this was some sort of power grab by the Dáil. In reality, our legislature is one of the least powerful in the democratic world. Almost all power lies in the executive. More power for the democratically-elected Dáil is exactly what we need.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
18,687
The misogyny/sexism card is played reflexively nowadays. It's probably an inevitable consequence of gender quotas which see people who couldn't make it on merit being pushed forward because of their gender. When they fail at the job they can't blame themselves so they have to come up with another excuse.
Members of the patriarchy complain because only approximately 80% of the Dail are men. It used to be over 95%.

The talking shop for the cronies of the insiders in academia and media that is the Seanad was retained because media and academia pulled out all the stops to keep it at referendum time.
 

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
14,159
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
The proof that those proposals were insincere was the fact that the same campaign - often the same individual - advocated 'reforms' that were plainly contradictory - for example they claimed that reforms would both make the Seanad more democratic, and also reserve places for minority interests; they said that it would not be just a talking shop, but would not have the power to challenge the Dáil; they said that it was necessary, but couldn't explain why nobody had worked out what it was necessary for in the 80 years of its existence.

But the biggest lie was the claim that this was some sort of power grab by the Dáil. In reality, our legislature is one of the least powerful in the democratic world. Almost all power lies in the executive. More power for the democratically-elected Dáil is exactly what we need.
i don't think they suggested it was power grab by the Dail but by the government (who are members of the Dail)
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top