Is making Ireland use the Pension Reserve Fund a plot/ploy/scheme/trap?

vanla sighs

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Now I don't want to sound too paranoid or conspiratorial but isn't it possible that this is the EU's (primarily Germany & France - and the UK I guess) way of making sure a default will hurt us even more than a default would were we not to tap into the Pension Reserve Fund? Imagine for a moment that we needed at some stage to leave the eurozone, for whatever reason, that cash reserve would be very handy for a State that needed to start printing its own currency once again - yet now that option may be closed off to us.

A well laid trap perhaps?
 
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Berty

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Please explain what exactly the PRF is please. Is is the fund when all Pub Sector pension payments are put?? :D
 

eoghanacht

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It was that or give up corp tax.

Personally i would have liked to see the FF scum threaten to collapse the Euro, it seems that was beyond them.

When you owe the bank 100k, they own you. When you owe them 10m, you own them.
 

vanla sighs

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Please explain what exactly the PRF is please. Is is the fund when all Pub Sector pension payments are put?? :D
My understanding is that you can view it basically as a big piggy bank. A fund from which public sector pensions can be drawn down from at a later date - I could be mistaken but that's my take on it.
 

vanla sighs

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It was that or give up corp tax.

Personally i would have liked to see the FF scum threaten to collapse the Euro, it seems that was beyond them.

When you owe the bank 100k, they own you. When you owe them 10m, you own them.
Yeah, we were in a position to say: hey, hold on a sec here....we also have a trump card here, but they didn't, they folded. Pathetic isn't it. What I am really wondering is whether the next government are legally bound by the agreement signed by a previous government? Or do they have the option to say: no, we didn't agree to that, we're not standing behind it. But possibly by then the money will already have been swallowed up by the bad banks. Absolutely pathetic. Criminal.
 

Berty

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My understanding is that you can view it basically as a big piggy bank. A fund from which public sector pensions can be drawn down from at a later date - I could be mistaken but that's my take on it.
Thanks for that.:D

I had an idea it was like that, but I am sure there are complications associated with it. I just hope they didn't invest it into anything dodgy and that the cash is actually in the fund.
 

eoghanacht

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Yeah, we were in a position to say: hey, hold on a sec here....we also have a trump card here, but they didn't, they folded. Pathetic isn't it. What I am really wondering is whether the next government are legally bound by the agreement signed by a previous government? Or do they have the option to say: no, we didn't agree to that, we're not standing behind it. But possibly by then the money will already have been swallowed up by the bad banks. Absolutely pathetic. Criminal.
I live in hope that they incumbent Gov will void any and all agreements made by FF on the grounds that they were signed off by a corrupt Gov. However
 

Squire Allworthy

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Now I don't want to sound too paranoid or conspiratorial but isn't it possible that this is the EU's (primarily Germany & France - and the UK I guess) way of making sure a default will hurt us even more than a default would were we not to tap into the Pension Reserve Fund? Imagine for a moment that we needed at some stage to leave the eurozone, for whatever reason, that cash reserve would be very handy for a State that needed to start printing its own currency once again - yet now that option may be closed off to us.

A well laid trap perhaps?
They are closing down your options, but default would still hurt them more. Now default would cause mayhem in 3 month who knows. This government is making a series of dubious decisions. What would happen tomorrow if the banks ran out of money? It is only a problem if it is not planned for and there is probably what undermined the position of the negotiators.

They won't be thanked by anyone for being soft.
 

Doodah

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Ok, let's not be paranoid then and say that the high interest rate demanded was to:

(1) Make the bail-out unappetising to anyone thinking that it was an easy option, requiring countries to cut spending instead.
(2) Satisfy German voters on the basis that they would make a nice profit from the loan.

The inclusion of State assets (Pension reserve fund) would serve as a form of insurance, acting as a deterrant to banking default and ensuring that savings are made through public spending /public sector wage reductions and tax increases.

The IMF were at pains to point out that this was an Irish Plan.

It is a scheme and a ploy, with the effect of a trap, as Corpo tax increases will be required to help service the debt. EU Bondholders will be protected by the PRF transfer to the banks.

With corpo tax increases, multinationals will depart. With bank default near impossible due to the PRF transfer, EU bondholders are protected.
Plan or trap?
Pays yer money and takes yer choice!
.
 

Padraigin

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Yeah, we were in a position to say: hey, hold on a sec here....we also have a trump card here, but they didn't, they folded. Pathetic isn't it. What I am really wondering is whether the next government are legally bound by the agreement signed by a previous government? Or do they have the option to say: no, we didn't agree to that, we're not standing behind it. But possibly by then the money will already have been swallowed up by the bad banks. Absolutely pathetic. Criminal.

The deal will require legislation to implement, which means that it is going to have to be approved by the Dail. Once that happens, however, it is over. The terms will be set and enforced exactly as written.

It is possible that the deal may be able to be killed in the Dail, however, either by a vote rejecting key provisions, or by a vote to invoke Article 27 and put it to a referendum vote by the people.

If it goes through, however, it is done.

A new government is not going to be able to change a thing.
 

Padraigin

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Ok, let's not be paranoid then and say that the high interest rate demanded was to:

(1) Make the bail-out unappetising to anyone thinking that it was an easy option, requiring countries to cut spending instead.
(2) Satisfy German voters on the basis that they would make a nice profit from the loan.

The inclusion of State assets (Pension reserve fund) would serve as a form of insurance, acting as a deterrant to banking default and ensuring that savings are made through public spending /public sector wage reductions and tax increases.

The IMF were at pains to point out that this was an Irish Plan.

It is a scheme and a ploy, with the effect of a trap, as Corpo tax increases will be required to help service the debt. EU Bondholders will be protected by the PRF transfer to the banks.

With corpo tax increases, multinationals will depart. With bank default near impossible due to the PRF transfer, EU bondholders are protected.
Plan or trap?
Pays yer money and takes yer choice!
.


This was a wish list prepared by European bankers who got everything they wanted. Those who the insane Irish government appointed to "negotiate" were world bank guys, whose only agenda was to make sure that the world banks got protected. The Irish "negotiators" had no interest in protecting the Irish people.

Portugal and Spain are next. Hell will freeze before either of these countries accept the kind of punitive deal given to Ireland. They will default without giving it a second thought, and do it with cheerful optimism.

And then the euro will collapse - and neither Portugal or Spain will give a damn so long as they have taken care of their people and restored their own currency.

That is the difference between responsible governments and insane governments (Irish government).
 

realist

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Looks like it is backfiring already!

"Euro dips through $1.3200 to lowest in 2 months

* Market looking beyond Ireland package to Portugal

By Charlotte Cooper

TOKYO, Nov 29 (Reuters) - The euro fell to its lowest in two months against the dollar on Monday as the market looked past a rescue package for Ireland to other euro zone economies and a euro zone crisis resolution mechanism."

FOREX-Euro at 2-month low as focus on Portugal, Spain | Reuters
 

Doodah

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A conspiracy would imply that Germany is in control.
A Plan would imply that they aren't really and all bets are off next year.
 

hammer

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My belief is that once Fianna FAIL are removed the people will band together in a true national effort to get us out of this hole.

If it means working a 45 hour week for no extra pay so be it.

If it means contributing more volunteer work for society, so be it.

We will not get our mojo back until the failed Fianna FAIL party are removed and their pensions cut by 80% minimum.
 

Mitsui2

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My belief is that once Fianna FAIL are removed the people will band together in a true national effort to get us out of this hole.

If it means working a 45 hour week for no extra pay so be it.

If it means contributing more volunteer work for society, so be it.

We will not get our mojo back until the failed Fianna FAIL party are removed and their pensions cut by 80% minimum.
Hammer, I'd love to agree with you. I really would.
 


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