Is Noonan really powerless or just disinterested?

Rocky

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Some battles need to be fought even if defeat is a forgone conclusion. If Roddy Molloy was forced to go through the courts for his golden handshake a powerful political precedent would have been set in that any other such scenarios, like this one with the bankers, would mean a choice between public opprobrium or compromise. But of course no such political mettle exists.
They don't care about public opprobrium. They'd also probably see a victory in the courts as a vindication of themselves and try to spin it as such.
 


Niall996

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Noonan and his FG/Lab colleagues are now a complete xerox of Fianna Fail. It's just unbelievable that these clowns keep getting elected.
 

edifice.

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They don't care about public opprobrium. They'd also probably see a victory in the courts as a vindication of themselves and try to spin it as such.
You presume they don't care, it's worth the fight.
 

DCon

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There's been discussions on this site before. The government can't just break contracts. The retired bankers, would obviously run off to the Courts win and it would cost us more money and we would still have to paid the pensions.

A majority in the Dail and control of the Banks does not allow the government to start breaking contracts, unless they start making crazy laws, that would probably get us into trouble with the EU and probably cause much greater problems.

To be honest, Noonan is just stating the very obvious. It's not remotely bizarre and you've clearly misrepresented his statement.
Why would contracts have to be broken?

The government can use the tax system to reduce pensions. Of both bankers and Cowen, Ahern etc

I think a 99% tax on pension payments in excess of 50K would be a start

The only reason FG/Lab will not do this is that it would affect their retired FG and Labour former colleagues
 

gerhard dengler

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In times of national emergencies, legislation is enacted conferring emergency powers.

It is reasonable to assume that Ireland is in a national economic emergency.

Therefore it is only the lack of political will which is preventing the steps that need to be taken being implemented.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Yes Minister, Noonan is a complete creature of the permanent govt.
I think that is the crux of the matter. What is needed in Ireland is not a generation of TDs so long in the Dáil that they just accept the ways of the permanent government as you so aptly describe the Sir Humphrey types.

I have a lot of personal regard for Michael Noonan, but I do think that what we really need is someone like Peter Mathews for the job, an outsider to the permanent government yet someone who knows inside out how bankings and monetary systems work. Unfortunately longevity counts far more towards getting a senior ministry in politics that actual relevant real world experience.
 

turdsl

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There's been discussions on this site before. The government can't just break contracts. The retired bankers, would obviously run off to the Courts win and it would cost us more money and we would still have to paid the pensions.

A majority in the Dail and control of the Banks does not allow the government to start breaking contracts, unless they start making crazy laws, that would probably get us into trouble with the EU and probably cause much greater problems.

To be honest, Noonan is just stating the very obvious. It's not remotely bizarre and you've clearly misrepresented his statement.
They tried to cut the hours of the personal assistants to the disabled,
The are cutting another half a million carer hours to the old and the sick,

OK they need not break the contracts, They have their massive majority

Why not tax everything over €90000 AT 95%. Those people would still be way better of
than the poor.
 

VHF

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In times of national emergencies, legislation is enacted conferring emergency powers.

It is reasonable to assume that Ireland is in a national economic emergency.

Therefore it is only the lack of political will which is preventing the steps that need to be taken being implemented.
Banks and Bankers have lost the trust of the citizens. No amount of TV, radio or print media commercials and advertising by the banks will repair that broken trust.

@gerhard dengler - you are correct. There are choices. Choices with risks. The question is one of whether or not the Irish Government has the political will and courage to make alternaive choices to those which they've adopted thusfar.

[video=youtube;TP1J3HXOZIc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1J3HXOZIc[/video]

Given the gravity of odious Irish bank debt - allow democracy prevail, put a vote to the citizens of Ireland as to whether or not Ireland should continue to repay the odious bank debts of speculators and investors.

Allow the Yes and No campaigners equal opportunity to present their case to the citizens.
 
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Disillusioned democrat

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There's been discussions on this site before. The government can't just break contracts. The retired bankers, would obviously run off to the Courts win and it would cost us more money and we would still have to paid the pensions.

A majority in the Dail and control of the Banks does not allow the government to start breaking contracts, unless they start making crazy laws, that would probably get us into trouble with the EU and probably cause much greater problems.

To be honest, Noonan is just stating the very obvious. It's not remotely bizarre and you've clearly misrepresented his statement.
These banks wouldn't exist without tax payers money, so the execs would be out of work and the pension fund would be depleted, so to be honest I don't think it'd be too difficult to justify capping payments, etc....I had both pension AND salary cut in the private sector. no an is throwing in the towel without a whimper....why not do it just to be seen to do it and make these guys high profile pariahs and see if that achieves something.....why not?
 

DCon

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These banks wouldn't exist without tax payers money, so the execs would be out of work and the pension fund would be depleted, so to be honest I don't think it'd be too difficult to justify capping payments, etc....I had both pension AND salary cut in the private sector. no an is throwing in the towel without a whimper....why not do it just to be seen to do it and make these guys high profile pariahs and see if that achieves something.....why not?
These pension funds?

On Wednesday, it almost seemed a throwaway question that revealed that AIB had in August 2012 shovelled €1.1bn of the €20.7bn taxpayer bailout into its pension fund to plug a hole which put at jeopardy “super pensions” payable to former executives at the helm of the bank during the boom which has now spectacularly turned to bust; it should be said that the pension fund also pays the more bread-and-butter pensions of former AIB employees who might have been on modest salaries. The transcript of the hearing is not yet available, so the deputy who first extracted the information from the AIB CEO David Duffy isn’t getting credit on here at this juncture.

Since Wednesday, there have been a number of messages received in confidence on here which suggest that we have just scratched the surface of bank pension funds and how they were managed prior to the bust, their activities in supporting bank share prices and how they have had to be rescued by the taxpayer. It seems like there might be (several) huge stories there, but they will require resources for a subject that goes beyond the remit of this blog.

What we know for now from the AIB hearing on Wednesday and the Bank of Ireland hearing on Thursday is that pensions of €500-650,000 are being paid to ex-AIB CEO Eugene Sheehy and ex-BoI CEO Brian Goggin. The AIB pension fund was topped up with €1.1bn of funds that can be attributable to the taxpayer bailout. It seems that the BoI top-up was not disclosed but BoI has to date received a gross bailout from the taxpayer of €4.7bn.
Who knew we were bailing out more than just bondholders when we bailed out the banks
 

VHF

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Of course the Irish Government knew. The AG would have been consulted, no doubt important matters pertaining to how Irish Government political decision making must be in keeping with EU law. They knew well the consequences of their actions.

Shocking how they glossed over that important detail when communicating political actions being taken at the time.

 

constitutionus

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of course the fuker could do something if he wanted to.

christ he can call an EGM and abolish all the board members of two of the three banks and make life very difficult for the third if he wanted to.

but thats the crux of the issue.

he doesnt want to

FG just lying their arses off AGAIN.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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of course the fuker could do something if he wanted to.

christ he can call an EGM and abolish all the board members of two of the three banks and make life very difficult for the third if he wanted to.

but thats the crux of the issue.

he doesnt want to

FG just lying their arses off AGAIN.
You make a good point eloquently.
 

Lassie

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Defined pensions can only be nailed via taxation. The bank could claim to have a reasonable argument in that any bankers they might want to employ will not entertain the salaries we'd love them to have. Noonan could possibly consider addressing it but it would be more likely to be a pyrrhic victory of gains being swallowed up in legal fees.
TBH this is another rile the peasants story that the Sindo seems overfond of.
tax them at 90% so but i guess they write the finance act dont they. IFSC lobby group powerful in shaping policy - The Irish Times - Mon, Oct 08, 2012
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Hewson

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I am a public servant and I thought I had a contract with my employer which entitled me to a certain rate of pay. However my employer tore it up and unilaterally cut my pay on the grounds of inability to pay.

Surely employees of all the majority state owned banks (ie all Irish banks headquartered banks except BoI) should be treated the same? None of them would be in jobs without taxpayer support. Why are they treated any differently from any other public servants?
There's a perception among the public that we own the taxpayer-funded banks, AIB, ILP and so on.

We don't.

Just because our government has shoveled billions into rescuing them from the consequences of their own greed and stupidity, just because the state has a paltry 99.9% stake in AIB, and just because your grandchildren will be working to pay the bill for the banks' profligacy, does NOT mean that Noonan has any influence over pay and pensions.

The banks have shown who's boss by taking the couple of billion given to them to sort out mortgage arrears and using it to dress up their balance sheets. This money came to them by way of the working mortgage payers, those in arrears and those who can still pay. This is the banks' way of saying thanks and it involves a big gesture with a middle finger. It's also the banks' way of disabusing you and your governmentof any notion that you own them. Or ever will.

Money talks. The banks control the money and that's why your government operates a policy of utter inertia in the face of such arrogance.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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There's a perception among the public that we own the taxpayer-funded banks, AIB, ILP and so on.

We don't.

Just because our government has shoveled billions into rescuing them from the consequences of their own greed and stupidity, just because the state has a paltry 99.9% stake in AIB, and just because your grandchildren will be working to pay the bill for the banks' profligacy, does NOT mean that Noonan has any influence over pay and pensions.

The banks have shown who's boss by taking the couple of billion given to them to sort out mortgage arrears and using it to dress up their balance sheets. This money came to them by way of the working mortgage payers, those in arrears and those who can still pay. This is the banks' way of saying thanks and it involves a big gesture with a middle finger. It's also the banks' way of disabusing you and your governmentof any notion that you own them. Or ever will.

Money talks. The banks control the money and that's why your government operates a policy of utter inertia in the face of such arrogance.
Wy don't the government just take their money back, or at least threaten to unless the bank does its housekeeping?
 

VHF

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You have owners. They own YOU! Following clip also applies to Ireland. Wake up people.

[video=youtube;FeLLR3LWtv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLLR3LWtv4[/video]
 


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