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Is regaining sovereignity Labour's priority, as Gilmore keep saying? Surely unemployment is?


leftsoc

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Every time Gilmore is in a corner he returns to the mantra that 'regaining soveregnity is our priority' or 'we were elected to regain sovereignity'. This is always conceded as if it were transparently obvious by his interlocutors -but is it?

The sovereignity argument is clearly favoured by Labour's spin doctors, because it is the pathway to the TINA - there is no alternative - (invented by Maggie's spin doctors 30 years ago) defence, which closes down all discussion.

While those of the Republican tradition are exercised by the fear of not being sovereign for the centenary of 1916, why should the Labour prioritise sovereignity before reducing unemployment? Is it a trace of Gilmore's origins in Official Sinn Fein that he cares more about 'Ireland' than its people (Connolly cited his concern for the people over abstract concepts like nationality as the very definition of his socialism).

When the governement incurs 100 millions in extra debt so as to put its toe in the waters of the market, surely it is putting some abstract national pride before the unemployed? Why suffer higher interest rates and possible instability so as to hasten the regaining of 'sovereignity'?

Do we really want to be back to the tender mercies of our corrupt and hopelessly incompetent ruling elite? At least the Trioika is rational and has some political constraints on the damage it can inflict. Do we really think a FG or FG dominated government would be better for the unemloyed than the Troika?
 

Marvar88

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Unemployment is a lag indicator and is always the last part of an economic recovery.

Reforms come first. This has been the way in every boom bust cycle.

Gilmore along with the government must continue on with structural reforms which will allow for job growth in the future.
 

niall78

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Is gaining fat pensions Labour's priority? Surely unemployment is?

That would be the more pertinent question.
 

Sync

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Unemployment is a lag indicator and is always the last part of an economic recovery.

Reforms come first. This has been the way in every boom bust cycle.

Gilmore along with the government must continue on with structural reforms which will allow for job growth in the future.
This. Unless you're going to engage in massive public works pieces (like China or the US in the 40s) then employment follows economic stability and growth, not the other way around.
 

tigerben

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Labour don't care for the unemployed, they have put all eggs in to the PS basket, and hope that it's enough to get half them re elected next time around.
 

jmcc

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Gilmore and the rest of the Stickies would have been eager to hand over Irish soverignty to their pals in the Soviet Union had the Cold War turned out differently. Why should be trust them now?
 

HYENA

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The dail is a parcel of rogues, with kim gilmore minding his pension and adams minding his prostate and spring minding a bank for a grand a day.
 

statsman

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Is gaining fat pensions Labour's priority? Surely unemployment is?

That would be the more pertinent question.
Labour don't care for the unemployed, they have put all eggs in to the PS basket, and hope that it's enough to get half them re elected next time around.
Gilmore and the rest of the Stickies would have been eager to hand over Irish soverignty to their pals in the Soviet Union had the Cold War turned out differently. Why should be trust them now?
The dail is a parcel of rogues, with kim gilmore minding his pension and adams minding his prostate and spring minding a bank for a grand a day.
Politics.ie; Ireland's premier anti-politics website.

Where, exactly, do you all imagine the jobs are going to come to without economic sovereignty and stability?
 

Analyzer

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Snouts in the trough....
 

leftsoc

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Unemployment is a lag indicator and is always the last part of an economic recovery.

Reforms come first. This has been the way in every boom bust cycle.

Gilmore along with the government must continue on with structural reforms which will allow for job growth in the future.
'Structural reforms' = oppotunistically use the crisis to remove the few rights left to workers.
 

leftsoc

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This. Unless you're going to engage in massive public works pieces (like China or the US in the 40s) then employment follows economic stability and growth, not the other way around.
I think you all miss the point. We are being asked to shoulder extra debt , through higher interest rates , in order to expedite the exit from the program. Is this rational? Is it economically wise.

We have failed as an independent nation. Getting back our sovereignity and reputation quickly is about as meaningful as regaining virginity.
 

leftsoc

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Politics.ie; Ireland's premier anti-politics website.

Where, exactly, do you all imagine the jobs are going to come to without economic sovereignty and stability?
How does exiting the program early (at great cost through higher interest rates) help reduce unemployment.? There is a huge unacknowledged lacuna in the argument.
 

Marvar88

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I think you all miss the point. We are being asked to shoulder extra debt , through higher interest rates , in order to expedite the exit from the program. Is this rational? Is it economically wise.
We have failed as an independent nation. Getting back our sovereignity and reputation quickly is about as meaningful as regaining virginity.
BOOOOOOOMMMMMM.

You have just proved that you're talking through your arse.

Ireland borrowed last week at an interest rate of 3.35%. We borrow from the Troika at an average rate of 3.7%. The IMF part is 4.7% while the EU commission part is 3.5%. We are NOW BORROWING ON THE MARKETS AT A LOWER RATE THAN FROM THE TROIKA.

Today for example we borrowed three month bills at an astonishingly low rate of 0.2% and there is barely a murmer about it..

Ladies and Gentleman this thread was started by an out and out spoofer who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Thread closed.
 

Murph

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No one minds their prostrates or at least anyone worth their salt wouldn't.
 

hiding behind a poster

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I think you all miss the point. We are being asked to shoulder extra debt , through higher interest rates , in order to expedite the exit from the program. Is this rational? Is it economically wise.

We have failed as an independent nation. Getting back our sovereignity and reputation quickly is about as meaningful as regaining virginity.
No, we're shouldering extra debt because still pay ourselves way more in pay, services and welfare, than we take in in taxes and other revenues.
 

hiding behind a poster

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BOOOOOOOMMMMMM.

You have just proved that you're talking through your arse.

Ireland borrowed last week at an interest rate of 3.35%. We borrow from the Troika at an average rate of 3.7%. The IMF part is 4.7% while the EU commission part is 3.5%. We are NOW BORROWING ON THE MARKETS AT A LOWER RATE THAN FROM THE TROIKA.

Today for example we borrowed three month bills at an astonishingly low rate of 0.2% and there is barely a murmer about it..

Ladies and Gentleman this thread was started by an out and out spoofer who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Thread closed.
Well to be fair, he may have been auditioning for the "Most Cliches In One Post" Grammy.
 

Cato

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Unemployment is a lag indicator and is always the last part of an economic recovery.

Reforms come first. This has been the way in every boom bust cycle.

Gilmore along with the government must continue on with structural reforms which will allow for job growth in the future.
This is sensible but I would query whether or not the necessary structural reforms are being implemented or with sufficient waste.

Also, I really do question the political wisdom in making the waving goodbye to the Troika such a big 'win'. It should be sold as a significant step on the road to recovery but the Government seem in danger of overselling it. It won't feel like a win to the electorate unless material conditions and employment improves shortly thereafter but that seems unlikely given the lag effect. We are in for several more tough years and the public need to be conditioned to that to an extent (although that may require a level of maturity that they are ill-prepared for).
 

statsman

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How does exiting the program early (at great cost through higher interest rates) help reduce unemployment.? There is a huge unacknowledged lacuna in the argument.

I'd say that it is necessary to return to 'normal' circumstances, but by no means sufficient. A lot of other things need to be addressed, including wages, costs, taxation, etc.
 

Irelande

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I was unaware that labor ever recognised Irish peoples rights, Sovereignty, and aspirations to begin with !
 

leftsoc

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This is sensible but I would query whether or not the necessary structural reforms are being implemented or with sufficient waste.

Also, I really do question the political wisdom in making the waving goodbye to the Troika such a big 'win'. It should be sold as a significant step on the road to recovery but the Government seem in danger of overselling it. It won't feel like a win to the electorate unless material conditions and employment improves shortly thereafter but that seems unlikely given the lag effect. We are in for several more tough years and the public need to be conditioned to that to an extent (although that may require a level of maturity that they are ill-prepared for).
'The Market' will be a harsher task master than the troika, which operates with some political constraints. To stop interest rates jumping up and down, it is likely we would have to adopt an even more destructive austerity policy , if we go back to the market prematurely , and without any write-down of bank debt. That debt was the reason we were locked out in the first place and nothing has changed with that debt. Lengthening the repayment time even if it happens, would not really be the game changer the governmnet claims.
 
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