Is the Euro a bad thing?



pujols

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Jump ship because of a poll?

Sheer folly
 

richie268

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I hope the following gives a little more perspective,

Jeremy Cook, chief economist at currency dealer World First, said: "When I saw the figure I honestly thought it was a misprint; it's just horrible. Trading today had kicked off with rumours of Anglo Irish Bank defaulting on debt and has led to the Irish CDS (credit default swap) - insurance against the Irish government defaulting - move to a record 5%. To put that in context, the market believes that Ireland is twice as likely to default on its debt as Vietnam.

Free Internet Press :: Ireland's Economy Faces Double-Dip Recession :: Uncensored News For Real People
 

FutureTaoiseach

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The single interest-rate is a catastrophe for this country. We are now back to the size of the economy in 2002, according to the CSO - and it is continuing to contract. The housing-crash was largely the result of pro-cyclical monetary policy from the ECB, imposing on Ireland Franco-German interest rates despite us being at a different stage of the economic cycle. But from the perspective of the elites, the euro has been a success because they see it in terms of a stage in the Federalisation of Europe, of which a single monetary-policy is an integral part.
 

richie268

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Ok
We are borrowing money at 6.7% and eventually everybody will know that this can not be sustained even with many hard budgets. as we enter the double dip "even though we never got out of it" people are beginning to realize that as long as we are good European loving citizens that poverty is inevitable .
I say we should get out and facilitate the citizens of the EU (55% of them ) that have no faith in their wallet.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Ok
We are borrowing money at 6.7% and eventually everybody will know that this can not be sustained even with many hard budgets. as we enter the double dip "even though we never got out of it" people are beginning to realize that as long as we are good European loving citizens that poverty is inevitable .
I say we should get out and facilitate the citizens of the EU (55% of them ) that have no faith in their wallet.
Yes but the Vichy mentality in EU capitals will ensure the show is kept on the road. :rolleyes:
 

richie268

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Yes but the Vichy mentality in EU capitals will ensure the show is kept on the road. :rolleyes:
Yes for as long a possible and in the mean time Irish People Suffer,
but it will come to an abrupt end. basically the euro has failed because of the human element confidence and the people of Europe are not confident about the Euro thus helping the price of gold skyrocket.
The first country in Europe to come clean on their banks and dump the euro will be the first country to really prosper.
 

McDave

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Ok
We are borrowing money at 6.7% and eventually everybody will know that this can not be sustained even with many hard budgets. as we enter the double dip "even though we never got out of it" people are beginning to realize that as long as we are good European loving citizens that poverty is inevitable .
Our problem is that we are overborrowing, not the currency we're borrowing in.
 

McDave

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Yes for as long a possible and in the mean time Irish People Suffer,
but it will come to an abrupt end. basically the euro has failed because of the human element confidence and the people of Europe are not confident about the Euro thus helping the price of gold skyrocket.
The first country in Europe to come clean on their banks and dump the euro will be the first country to really prosper.
To a large extent the Euro is actually politically neutral - in the sense that politicians can't interfere with it. That seriously pisses off a lot of politicians because they can't do stuff like devalue to cover up their own policy failings.

The Euro is barely 10 years old, so in a historic context I suppose you could say it is hard to prove it has been a success. But if it comes through the current crisis (regardless of whether the likes of Greece stays on board), it will have earned a huge amount of confidence. The success of a currency is not down to whether people like it or not, it is down to the success of the economy underlying it. The Germans learned to love the DM because it became a symbol of their economic stability. Likewise, if the Euro comes through relatively unscathed (whatever about the irresponsible economies in the Eurozone - like Ireland), people will come to rely on it, if not love it.

Incidentally, the first country to dump the Euro will be the first country to admit their economy has fundamentally failed, and that they can't hack it internationally. Now if a successful economy wants to leave the Euro, that's another story entirely...
 
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Yes the Euro is a bad thing.

There is no reason why we are in it and continue to stay in it.

Had we left the Euro we could have created our own stimulus package, devalued our currency and lower interest rates. Our Economy would have become cost effective overnight leading a strong recovery whilst remaining within Europe.

Most likely had we left other countries such as Spain, Portugal etc would have followed.
 

LowIQ

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Joining the euro was an awful idea -- not just for Ireland. This is not America. Europe is not a single country and every attempt to make it one, from the Romans on up, have failed.
While Fianna Fail is overwhelmingly to blame for our current economic catastrophe, we should not rule out the failure of the ECB to adequately regulate spending in the member states. If it is unable to do that, then there should not be a single currency. The ECB and euro-elite are now sticking it to Ireland and terrified that us or one of the other troubled countries will pull their precious project apart.
Having said that, it would be damn hard to leave the euro.
 

McDave

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Had we left the Euro we could have created our own stimulus package, devalued our currency and lower interest rates. Our Economy would have become cost effective overnight leading a strong recovery whilst remaining within Europe.
How would we have created our stimulus package? By borrowing? How could we have serviced our debt? By borrowing? Or should we have simply defaulted?

In any event, the cost we would have had to borrow at would probably be even higher than the 4% premium over German bonds. Maybe more like the 11% the Greeks are paying.

Leaving the Euro at any stage would have added huge costs to our economy. Possibly the only 'solution' might have been not to have joined in the first place. But knowing what we know about Irish politicians and our self-serving attitude, we would have probably ended up like Iceland.

Why can't people just accept we've screwed up and that no matter which solution we adopt, it's going to involve pain? Panaceas like leaving the Euro are just that, panaceas. We're going to have to go a hard road. IMO we might as well do it under the auspices of a stable currency serving the needs of stable economies.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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The Euro was economic suicide. One of the biggest disasters ever in the history of this country. Before joining it in 1998, our interest rate was 6.5%. Our total debt (Government, company + Household) was 150% of GNP. By 2000 / 2001 the ECB rate had dropped to 2%, our rates should have been about 16%. The rest is history and our total debt is now 700% of GNP.

 

kerdasi amaq

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Our problem is that we are overborrowing, not the currency we're borrowing in.
The fact that we are in a single currency, has created this overborrowing problem in the first place.:p
 

Squire Allworthy

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The problems that Ireland faces are due to poor government and irresponsible management of the economy. Unfortunately now that it is in the soup getting out will be quite a problem as the liabilities are in Euro and if free movement of trade is to be encouraged quirky national currencies don't help.

All currencies have their short comings and advantages. I don't particularly like the mantra about raising interest rates to solve inflationary pressures. If Ireland had its own currency and interest rates I could have borrowed in Japan or Germany to invest in Ireland. To me interest rates is a blunt instrument and down right lazy. It hits the feckless true enough, but it also hits those investing in productive enterprise.

What causes bubbles is a combination of money supply and availability of goods. There were many reasons why the property market was awash with money, the carry trade, poor regulation of the activities of banks, lunatic leverage ratios........

As I travel around, in virtually every country I have been in, there has been prosperous regions and poor regions. Regions that are clearly out of sync with each other.

From a political point of view I am a great believer in localising the services and tax raising powers down to as low a level as possible. The reason being that I think it reduces the ability of politicians and administrators to waste and it allows better transparency and improves the effectiveness of democracy. You can see where your money is being spend and decide on the services you want.

I would like to see cities and regions as close to self governing as possible, within an overall larger construct that deals with issues of common interest. Now, with that sort of vision would it then require a separate currency and interest rate for each and every city? What a thought, a trading nightmare.

In Argentina they tried various local trading units running in parallel to the main currency, mainly to try and get trade and money moving again where the system had literally ceased up. It was all together messy as confidence in the local trading units was constantly undermined. However I do believe that greater consideration needs to be given to how to make such trading units work and the concept of parallel currencies.

The empowerment of regions within an overall framework is something that I think has been given too little consideration. The tendency to centralise needs to be resisted but we must not lose the benefits that the EU brings. The City states and nations of Europe were also failed models that brought endless wars, trade barriers, restrictions on the movement of labour, strange views about racial attributes and supremacy etc.
 

Passer-by

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Had we left the Euro we could have created our own stimulus package, devalued our currency and lower interest rates. Our Economy would have become cost effective overnight leading a strong recovery....
The UK tried those policies. They are in now in the process of starting to reverse them because they had minimal impact other than to result in massive unsustainable borrowing by the state.

... whilst remaining within Europe.
There is no legal mechanism in the EU Treaties to "unadopt" the Euro. To "unadopt" it would require either Ireland to completely leave the EU or all other member states to modify the Treaties specially for us (And even if they did agree this, there would be a good possibility that any such resulting amending Treaty would be voted down in a referendum here).
 

richie268

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Squire Allworthy
"The empowerment of regions within an overall framework is something that I think has been given too little consideration. The tendency to centralise needs to be resisted but we must not lose the benefits that the EU brings"

I voted no
 
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The UK tried those policies. They are in now in the process of starting to reverse them because they had minimal impact other than to result in massive unsustainable borrowing by the state.

But yet their unemployment is only around 7%.


There is no legal mechanism in the EU Treaties to "unadopt" the Euro. To "unadopt" it would require either Ireland to completely leave the EU or all other member states to modify the Treaties specially for us (And even if they did agree this, there would be a good possibility that any such resulting amending Treaty would be voted down in a referendum here
Of course we can leave it. The UK are not part of it and still remain within the EU.
 
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How would we have created our stimulus package? By borrowing? How could we have serviced our debt? By borrowing? Or should we have simply defaulted?

In any event, the cost we would have had to borrow at would probably be even higher than the 4% premium over German bonds. Maybe more like the 11% the Greeks are paying.

Leaving the Euro at any stage would have added huge costs to our economy. Possibly the only 'solution' might have been not to have joined in the first place. But knowing what we know about Irish politicians and our self-serving attitude, we would have probably ended up like Iceland.

Why can't people just accept we've screwed up and that no matter which solution we adopt, it's going to involve pain? Panaceas like leaving the Euro are just that, panaceas. We're going to have to go a hard road. IMO we might as well do it under the auspices of a stable currency serving the needs of stable economies.

Of course we could have created our own stimulus package. Even now instead of doing this we through Billions into Anglo, imagin if we only took half of that cash and invested it into new business start ups.

As for accepting we have screwed upp again this is wrong. The Elites screwed up, and yet have failed to feel the pain, however the majority of people in Ireland didnt cause the mess but are expected to carry the can.

Has everyone forgot whilst we struggle Brian Cowen continues to be one of the best paid leaders in the world forgetting we are now considered to be the 4th best placed county in the world expectred to default.

MADNESS:mad:
 


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