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Is the Labour heave out in the open at last?


Prester Jim

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Prester Jim

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On the OP, I would be surprised if they made a heave at this point.
They know whoever went in after Gilmore would have to preside over the party as they sort out the CP2 mess his leadership left them with.
They will wait unless they are scared he will mess it up so badly it damages Labour even more.

And not I didn't pay, I just hate that they will use my read as stats to show their readership.
 

Mentalist Clientelist

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Mar 2, 2010
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If there is leadership heave, and Gilmore is defeated, Kenny should call a general election.

I think FG would do very well and it would make FF go to the electorate two years earlier than they would wish for. The election campaign would give FG an opportunity to remind the electorate how bad things were under FF and the latter may not do as well as the opinion polls would suggest.

"We have to end austerity". What does that even mean? I have yet to hear a coherent alternative to austerity. Political parties like being popular. Wouldn't they have surely chosen a less austere route if it was possible?
 

Winifred

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Mar 28, 2013
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What is more concerning and is an issue that is likely to grow, is the intervention of the President in the debate. President Higgins has superbly summed up the rotten heart of the crisis in Europe and, by extension, at home but there he should have left it. However instead of calling on thought leaders to engage in figuring out a new way forward, the unreformed old Leftie couldn't help himself in implicitly promulgating socialist economic principles as the solution.

His rhetoric was efused with the usual lofty notions of solidarity but failed to address the human crave for incentive. He correctly points out that big business interests have overwhelmed the sovereign but unfortunately socialist economics has its own wrecking ball. Greece was run by Socialist governments.

President Higgins, with no career experience outside public life and academia, lacks the breadth of thinking to solve the problem. He continues the fight from the university campuses of the mid 20th century, raging against the loss to liberal economic models. The big issue though is that, this week it looks awfully like President Higgins is part of a wider campaign, whether intentionally or not. By intervening in this way he does not, as is quite clear from the general election, represent the views of the people.

There are many of us who distrust high taxation solutions especially in a country in the grip of over-powerful trade unions in the public sector desperate to carve out at disproportionate share of dwindled resources to their members.
 

Asparagus

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If there only scared that he'll mess it up now then they have been watching a very different Ireland than I. Labour need to pull out of government now if they have a shred of a future. Cp2 is the pigs and men scene from animal farm. There constituents will flock to ff and sf. Unless they make a major stand against austerity and aagainst exploitation.
There leaders are to old and fat to even realise this. Maybe Burton is a lone voice Of sense.
Gilmore needs a challenge.
 

Asparagus

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If there is leadership heave, and Gilmore is defeated, Kenny should call a general election.

I think FG would do very well and it would make FF go to the electorate two years earlier than they would wish for. The election campaign would give FG an opportunity to remind the electorate how bad things were under FF and the latter may not do as well as the opinion polls would suggest.

"We have to end austerity". What does that even mean? I have yet to hear a coherent alternative to austerity. Political parties like being popular. Wouldn't they have surely chosen a less austere route if it was possible?
All the soft ps vote that went from ff to th and Labour will return. Kenny will not call a ge until he has to. A Labour heave will lead to them withdrawing from govt. He will try and offer a few hospitals to independents to continue limping on.
 

wombat

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Sindo today has stories about a split in Labour, a row in FG and a massive reform in FF on its front page. They must have run out of cash for surveys:lol:
 

Kevin Doyle

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Sindo today has stories about a split in Labour, a row in FG and a massive reform in FF on its front page. They must have run out of cash for surveys:lol:
Showing their true colours by the looks of things alright. Harris equating Michael Martin to Margaret Thatcher was hilarious, proof, as if any were needed, that that paper is only fit for the bird cage.
 

Northsideman

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SPN

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"We have to end austerity". What does that even mean? I have yet to hear a coherent alternative to austerity. Political parties like being popular. Wouldn't they have surely chosen a less austere route if it was possible?
Exactly!

We haven't had austerity in Ireland.

We have had a little bit of fiddling of the numbers and a massive ramping up of sovereign debt. The hope was that "growth" and "inflation" would do the heavy lifting. They didn't. And they won't.


Last year the Government spent €1.40 for every €1.00 it took in from taxes.

That's 5 years later. That's after 5 years of supposed "austerity".

They have spent 8 years tax revenues in 5 years.

That strategy only works until you run out of headroom to borrow more money.

We are rapidly running out of headroom.

When we do run out of headroom we will have to do what we should have done in 2009 and balance the budget.

And that balancing will include the cost of the interest on the >€100 Billion we have borrowed to date - which is equivalent to doubling the budget of the Department of Education.


The only "end to austerity" will come the day we have a balanced budget. From then on things can only get better.

Until we get a balanced budget things can only get worse, as we wait, and wait, and wait......


But we still have the highest paid politicians and administrators in Europe, so that's grand.
 

Kevin Doyle

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Exactly!

We haven't had austerity in Ireland.

We have had a little bit of fiddling of the numbers and a massive ramping up of sovereign debt. The hope was that "growth" and "inflation" would do the heavy lifting. They didn't. And they won't.


Last year the Government spent €1.40 for every €1.00 it took in from taxes.

That's 5 years later. That's after 5 years of supposed "austerity".

They have spent 8 years tax revenues in 5 years.

That strategy only works until you run out of headroom to borrow more money.

We are rapidly running out of headroom.

When we do run out of headroom we will have to do what we should have done in 2009 and balance the budget.

And that balancing will include the cost of the interest on the >€100 Billion we have borrowed to date - which is equivalent to doubling the budget of the Department of Education.


The only "end to austerity" will come the day we have a balanced budget. From then on things can only get better.

Until we get a balanced budget things can only get worse, as we wait, and wait, and wait......


But we still have the highest paid politicians and administrators in Europe, so that's grand.
We will never ever have a balanced budget.
 

SPN

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We will never ever have a balanced budget.
Not only will we have balanced budgets (when we run out of ability to borrow), we will also see budgets with a surplus (before paying down debt) as we try to regain some headroom.
 

Kevin Doyle

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Not only will we have balanced budgets (when we run out of ability to borrow), we will also see budgets with a surplus (before paying down debt) as we try to regain some headroom.

This is a fantasy. A nice one, but a fantasy nonetheless.
 

SPN

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This is a fantasy. A nice one, but a fantasy nonetheless.
Where will the money come from?

This is the bit you consistently fail to address.

You have said in the past that the hole will be filled by a mixture of cuts and taxes. The hole is 40% of tax take. Whilst a 40% cut in spending will be difficult to achieve, a 40% increase in taxes will lead to revolution.

On the subject of fantasies, here's a discussion you and I had in 2008.


Kevin Doyle said:
SPN said:
The economy is imploding. Where are we going to get the money to pay an increase - and that's without getting into a discussion about the merits of an increase.
We have Toward 2016 in place and agreed. Those awards will still be forthcoming, nothing short of a stroke of political suicide by the finance minister will prevent that. The current talks are an extension to an existing deal to factor in the new inflationary pressures many workers are facing.

I''m reasonably happy with my pay, the scale I'm on and my position on it and the with the pay increases I will still get in T2016. I wont turn down any additional pay increases but I am not out onthe streets demanding I get them.

Everyone in the Civil service is aware that it will be very slim pickings at these talks and that any award would/will be meagre. BUT we are under no illusions that there is any prospect of a pay freeze which would involve stopping increments and the remaining wage increases already negotiated.

Won't happen, no way, no how. This I fully realise. Your tin foil hat Illuminati conflation with ICTU bears no relevance to that reality. None what so ever.
 

Iphonista

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Ha! The DL/Labour marriage could end in divorce after all these years. It's ironic though that the Democratic Left folks who one would have considered further to the left seem to be toeing the austerity line more.
 

dresden8

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Ha! The DL/Labour marriage could end in divorce after all these years. It's ironic though that the Democratic Left folks who one would have considered further to the left seem to be toeing the austerity line more.
Lots of austerity in North Korea.
 
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