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Is the Papal Nuncio to Ireland correct about silenced priests here ?


Eoin Coir

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http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/2013/03/response-to-mary-wilsons-interview-with-the-papal-nuncio-on-drivetime/


On Drivetime on Friday evening last the Papal Nuncio Archbishop Charles John Brown when asked about silenced priests here like Tony Flannery, Brian Darcy, Fr. Maloney, Sean Fagan and others replied that as they were still speaking out , they were not silenced! In any man's language silenced means being deprived of performing as a priest in the ministry . Tony Flannery and Brendan Hoban, two founder members of the Association of Catholic Priests were quick to take him up on that. he also said in his interview with Mary Wilson that the priests problems were matters between themselves and their Bishop, or in case of an Order Priest ,with the head of their congregations. That is patently wrong,as in Tony Flannery's case, the CDF took an active part in Tony's plight.

Now Nuncio Brown at one stage actually worked in the CDF (formerly the Inquisition) and knows how things operate there. His interview with RTE was extraordinary and is not the full story. One wonders why he came out as he did, and does the election of a new Pope change matters ?
 

Eoin Coir

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Test of the new Pope will be to put manners on CDF and restore good priests. Vatican was not so quick to move on child abuser priests.
 
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Tony Flannery disputes Nuncio’s version of events. Association of Catholic Priests


On Drivetime on Friday evening last the Papal Nuncio Archbishop Charles John Brown when asked about silenced priests here like Tony Flannery, Brian Darcy, Fr. Maloney, Sean Fagan and others replied that as they were still speaking out , they were not silenced! In any man's language silenced means being deprived of performing as a priest in the ministry . Tony Flannery and Brendan Hoban, two founder members of the Association of Catholic Priests were quick to take him up on that. he also said in his interview with Mary Wilson that the priests problems were matters between themselves and their Bishop, or in case of an Order Priest ,with the head of their congregations. That is patently wrong,as in Tony Flannery's case, the CDF took an active part in Tony's plight.

Now Nuncio Brown at one stage actually worked in the CDF (formerly the Inquisition) and knows how things operate there. His interview with RTE was extraordinary and is not the full story. One wonders why he came out as he did, and does the election of a new Pope change matters ?
About two yeas ago I had a very long and detailed conversation about clerical sexual abuse with the then Nuncio to Ireland.

The conversation was unfailingly polite, but to me was ultimately as useful an exercise as trying to nail a jellyfish to the ceiling.

These guys are experts in evasion and - in effect - in lying.

It was impossible to avoid drawing he conclusion that I was in the presence of a master in the art of obfuscation, subtle denial and of avoiding the question.

The odd thing was that he seemed to be taking quite a bit of enjoyment from the challenge and almost revelled in it.

The big topic was whether Secular Law held precedence over Canon Law in the minds of priests. He never once answered that question in ninety minutes of being pressed on the issue.

What he didn't seem to realise was the metadata he was providing me.

You can have all the prepared answers ad glib dismissals you want, but when the news story becomes the fact of these dismissals, then you are getting the message over incorrectly and are misjudging the issue.

The absence of substance in the responses frames what is in effect a full response.

I would never place any trust in th word of a senior church figure; they're answering by rote.
 

commonman

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We will know more about what direction the new pope will take us in the next few months, i think this man will hit the ground running and do good.
 

commonman

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About two yeas ago I had a very long and detailed conversation about clerical sexual abuse with the then Nuncio to Ireland.

The conversation was unfailingly polite, but to me was ultimately as useful an exercise as trying to nail a jellyfish to the ceiling.

These guys are experts in evasion and - in effect - in lying.

It was impossible to avoid drawing he conclusion that I was in the presence of a master in the art of obfuscation, subtle denial and of avoiding the question.

The odd thing was that he seemed to be taking quite a bit of enjoyment from the challenge and almost revelled in it.

The big topic was whether Secular Law held precedence over Canon Law in the minds of priests. He never once answered that question in ninety minutes of being pressed on the issue.

What he didn't seem to realise was the metadata he was providing me.

You can have all the prepared answers ad glib dismissals you want, but when the news story becomes the fact of these dismissals, then you are getting the message over incorrectly and are misjudging the issue.

The absence of substance in the responses frames what is in effect a full response.

I would never place any trust in th word of a senior church figure; they're answering by rote.
DO you think they new pope will make any difference.
 

Eoin Coir

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I heard the diplomat's interview with Mary Wilson,and frankly I was shocked by it. Tony Flannery refutes his claims totally. Brown seemed to absolve the CDF's role in the matter, which is patently not correct.
 

Eoin Coir

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We will know more about what direction the new pope will take us in the next few months, i think this man will hit the ground running and do good.
lets hope he does, I would give him about 3 months to get moving.
 
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DO you think they new pope will make any difference.
As an atheist I'd hope so.

The problem seems to me that the RCC as a strictly hierarchical organisation demands total obedience up the chain. At the Papal level this also seems to extend to obedience to the dictats handed down by predecessors.

This Pope is in the unusual position of having the previous one alive. Then again, Benedict spoke of "filth" in the Church, so maybe that's a green light for reform.
 

gerhard dengler

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Tony Flannery disputes Nuncio’s version of events. Association of Catholic Priests

On Drivetime on Friday evening last the Papal Nuncio Archbishop Charles John Brown when asked about silenced priests here like Tony Flannery, Brian Darcy, Fr. Maloney, Sean Fagan and others replied that as they were still speaking out , they were not silenced! In any man's language silenced means being deprived of performing as a priest in the ministry . Tony Flannery and Brendan Hoban, two founder members of the Association of Catholic Priests were quick to take him up on that. he also said in his interview with Mary Wilson that the priests problems were matters between themselves and their Bishop, or in case of an Order Priest ,with the head of their congregations. That is patently wrong,as in Tony Flannery's case, the CDF took an active part in Tony's plight.

Now Nuncio Brown at one stage actually worked in the CDF (formerly the Inquisition) and knows how things operate there. His interview with RTE was extraordinary and is not the full story. One wonders why he came out as he did, and does the election of a new Pope change matters ?
Depending on the clergy member, either his bishop in the case of a diocesan priest or his order's provincial chief, informs the priest that he is being censured.

Fr D'Arcy fifth priest censured by Vatican - Irish News, World News & More | The Irish Times - Fri, Apr 27, 2012

Fr.Brian D'Arcy is not silenced as things stand. If he wishes to publish an article, he must first submit what he intends to write to the church authorities prior to it being published.
 

Moneygod

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Oh no... another anti catholic thread. Do you guys ever give up?
You better get the defence organised, Beavis and Butthead or I mean grace and roisin will be itching to get going!!
 

Eoin Coir

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Tony Flannery is unable to perform ministry in public, ie silenced.He can say mass in private with no member of public present. They have not been able to stop him telling what happened to him, but for that he is under threat of ex communication.
Of course the CDF ( Inquisition) goes first to a priest's religious order superior, or bishop as case may be. Flannery was shown extracts from the CDF Fatwa, so why then did the Nuncio say it really had nothing to do with them ?
 

asset test

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Sorry for my ignorance, but why do we have a Papal Nuncio, when we don't have a reciprocal Ambassador to the Vatican at present?

I may have missed something important though. Apologies if so, and welcome correction.
 

Eoin Coir

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we do have an ambassador to Vatican, non resident. But why does the Church of Christ need embassies, Nuncios, secretaries of state, own court system, stamp, and bank ? In the latter it has no ATM machines, as the Vatican has refused to sign up to anti money laundering provisions.
 
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Depending on the clergy member, either his bishop in the case of a diocesan priest or his order's provincial chief, informs the priest that he is being censured.

Fr D'Arcy fifth priest censured by Vatican - Irish News, World News & More | The Irish Times - Fri, Apr 27, 2012

Fr.Brian D'Arcy is not silenced as things stand. If he wishes to publish an article, he must first submit what he intends to write to the church authorities prior to it being published.
You say this as if you think that it is good
 
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we do have an ambassador to Vatican, non resident. But why does the Church of Christ need embassies, Nuncios, secretaries of state, own court system, stamp, and bank ? In the latter it has no ATM machines, as the Vatican has refused to sign up to anti money laundering provisions.
Having a nuncio - along with the diplomatic protections that confers - makes it easier to get documents out of the country and back to a safe place.
 

Westerly Wind

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Oh no... another anti catholic thread. Do you guys ever give up?
Of all the discussions on all the websites on all of the web, you click into this one;) If you don't like it, go somewhere else. There will be Catholics, there will be anti-Catholics. There's room for us all. When you've signed up to an organisation that makes some of the fine claims that the Catholic Church does, expect some to demur:)
 
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