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Is the State the enemy of the People?


Congalltee

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Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,211
Article 6
1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial,
derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to
designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to
decide all questions of national policy, according to the
requirements of the common good.
Does the State live up to that standard, some brief examples...

Incompetence and failure to apply the law
Former Waterford Crystal workers win landmark ECJ battle over pension losses - Independent.ie

Unwilling to obey the law
Department of Health ‘illegally’ put age limit on disability allowance

The bailout
Bank bailout cost of

The Past
Cost of State redress for abused up to nearly
Full text of Enda Kenny's apology to the Magdalene laundries survivors | Irish Examiner
"The reality is that for 90 years Ireland subjected these women and their experience to a profound and studied indifference.” E. Kenny

How does it treat those currently in its care (in light of the scandals of the past)
Damning report into St Patrick’s finds forced stripping, excessive force and intimidation
Findings on fatalities of children in care a 'disgrace' - Irish News, World News & More | The Irish Times - Thu, Jun 21, 2012
Latest Inspection Reports | hiqa.ie
‘We branded people lunatics and locked them away’ · TheJournal.ie

It tries to illegally convince the People to change their Constitution.
Unlawful spend on children

It defies its own Courts and European Court of Justice
A, B and C v Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dr Lydia Foy's Case : Recognition : TENI

It may breach international law
Government ignored the rule of law and misled the Irish public | Amnesty International

It fails to apply the law
Almost 124,000 garda warrants still to be acted on - Independent.ie

It’s pays its servants well at the taxpayer’s expense
Public sector economists confirm Irish public service pay benchmarking was a sham; Premium on private pay increased dramatically from 9.7 to 21.6% between 2003 and 2006

Its record when it interferes with the economy is not great
Economic history of the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A few questions:-
Does "enemy" overstate it?
How can the State be brought to heel?
Why is there near zero accountability of its failed servants?
When will the taxpayer say that enough is enough?
How can rights of citizens be asserted more fully?
Is Ronnie's statement correct in the case of Ireland -
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden.
 

SideysGhost

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Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
The corrupt inbred backward conservative FFailure (and FFailed) State is the enemy of the Irish people, yes.

You forgot to mention the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, the active collusion with British and Loyalist death squads, and generally being a shower of c*nts.
 

The Field Marshal

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Messages
44,414
The corrupt inbred backward conservative FFailure (and FFailed) State is the enemy of the Irish people, yes.

You forgot to mention the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, the active collusion with British and Loyalist death squads, and generally being a shower of c*nts.
The current quisling Irish governement, like the last one, are taking their orders from Germany and non Irish vested financial interests.

The result of this is a dead economy, massive unemployment and emmigration all occurring whilst the thieving Irish politicians who orchestrate this live the comfortable life.

This odious Irish traitorous polticial class appeased these foreign powers by transferring billions in private debt onto the Irish taxpayer
who had nothing to do with such debt.


Again, all done to appease non Irish interests and to secure the comfortable lifestyles of this robber Irish mainstream political class.
 

SideysGhost

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I think that's twice now I've had to agree with a post by the Field Marshal cos it was, well, the indisputable truth :)
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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24,203
Article 6
1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

------------------------------------------------------------------

It's the last bit they fail miserably on... which means they fail entirely... imo

It's all about the 'establishment' and protecting it and its cronies at all costs...

And if that means ignoring the common good or even acting against the common good... well then that's what they'll do... cos it's what they do all the f***ing time...
 

R3volution_R3ady

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Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,370
The State makes everyone under it's territorial rule poorer.

Without taxation, you have production. Without regulation, you have innovation.
 

stopdoingstuff

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Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
22,897
It is a bit of both. Ultimately it exists for its own purposes or for the purposes of those who control it, but in the process it has to shell out a fair bit of pacification money to keep the peasants plump and happy. But even a generous abuser is still an abuser.

The simple test is this- can it's actions be controlled by the people? Not really, or at least not with any ease. Are our agents subject to recall? Not really, and not until a long time after the damage is dine. Can we stop laws that obviously are bad for us? No. Are our referenda inviolable? No- the power to call, word, frame schedule and reschedule rests with a minority, and this gives that minority a large edge. Have we been regularly sold down to river to foreign interests? You bet. Are there are group of commissars who get paid to tell us that this was all in our best interests, and that because we voted for as government it is all ok, even if those in power did the polar opposite of what they promised in opposition? Yeah, there are.

So is the State our enemy? Yeah.
 

deepness

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The corrupt inbred backward conservative FFailure (and FFailed) State is the enemy of the Irish people, yes.

You forgot to mention the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, the active collusion with British and Loyalist death squads, and generally being a shower of c*nts.

And what about the FG/Labour gobsh!tes running the show now?
 
Joined
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19,084
Distinguish between 'the State' and 'our governments'. Otherwise the thread will be infested with libertarians proclaiming the Darwinian joys of anarchism for the rich.

As to the Irish governments, you have to ask enemy of which people - they have certainly done their level best for a small circle of people 'in the tent'. You just have to be the right people...
 

SideysGhost

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Nov 30, 2009
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And what about the FG/Labour gobsh!tes running the show now?
FF/FG/L are really just three factions of the same ruling party. There's no difference between them in reality. FF mostly run the show to pathetic and anaemic pretend opposition by FG/L, and every once in a while FF balls it up so badly that the pretend opposition get to play their annointed role to clean up the mess (by following the exact same ideology and policies) until FF are forgiven enough to have another go at running the show for another 16 years. FG/L know this is their role and they gladly play it cos it is well-paid and they get to contribute members and supporters to trough-snouting positions. It's all a game, a game of rob the Irish people for anything you can get, and all three parties play the role that is expected of them to keep the heist going.

The question was is the State the enemy of the people....and for 90 years that State has been run by, and in the interests of, those three factions and all their trough-snouting cronies.
 

The Field Marshal

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Your contention is that the state is not the enemy of the people?

The Irish state is controlled by the govt of the day.

The current and last Irish govt transferred billions in debt accrued by around 200 private individuals onto the back of every single taxpayer in that country.

The current and last govt have done this at the behest of non Irish financial interests and govts in order to ensure the continued survival of the euro currency.

What are the consequences of all this for ordinary Irish people?

IMV they are drastically reduced standards of living, massive unemployment increased emmigration and a moribund economy.

Therefore the governments that have done and continue to behave in this way are IMV all enemies of the people.


Do you regard such govts as friends of the people?
 

SideysGhost

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Some bead-rattling lunatic FFailure accusing me of being involved in the property bubble is truly surreal mental stuff alright. Bob bless p.ie for the sheer insanity of it all.
 

The Field Marshal

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Civil Servants run the country
Thats true.

Civil servants run the country in collaboration with its political rulers.

In Ireland the top tiers of both above groups are running the Irish state on the sole basis of ensuring the continuation of their own staggering salary scales.

Most of the money to fund these incredible salaries is borrowed from non Irish sources.

The native Irish taxpayer then must slave for the upkeep of Nottingham,s Sherrif and retinue.

This is what is known as a kleptocracy.
 
Joined
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Let us look at the archives of sites like this and see what people were saying between the period of 1996-2002.

Any of your family , friends or even you get caught up in crazy property sales, taking out loans that you couldn't afford , spending SSIA money ? (point to others)
If you do look, you'll see that Sidewinder, as he then was, was one of the few banging on day and night about the almighty crash on its way.
 

ibis

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Mar 12, 2005
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12,359
The State is not the enemy of the people, but the servant of the people, tasked with wide duties, and with correspondingly wide powers of discretion. Like all such high-powered servants, it needs to be watched at all times lest it fall into sloth, corruption, and arrogance. And like all such servants, it regularly seeks to persuade its masters to remove checks on its freedom.
 

Rural

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Some bead-rattling lunatic FFailure accusing me of being involved in the property bubble is truly surreal mental stuff alright. Bob bless p.ie for the sheer insanity of it all.
We didn't speculate and when Lenihan (God rest him) said that we all partied, I was angry, very angry. I could say more but I'm still angry.
 
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