Is there a 3rd way?

LeDroit

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Ireland is becoming an angry place. I take that back, Ireland is an incredibly angry place. We see it on public fora and sense it, feel it amidst our friends and family; the so called electorate. We know we're destined for Jackie Healy Raes etc. We're gobsh!tes. We know. But it's equally clear that there is an alternative desire for something alternative to the existing parties.

The difficulty is that people become polarised. In particular, the people go the Left in a recession thinking that someone else should pay for them. It's an intoxicating alternative, the 'someone else will sort you out theory', Robin Hood Economics.

The Right would say that it's every man for himself.

Surely between those poles there has to be an option. Namely, we should help those who can't and drive those who can. Blair tried to skirt the line. Where is Ireland's middle way man?
 


Oscar Wilde

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yes
pull out of Rome, reform church of ireland, for all believers .. that's religion done
Unite the country under the triclour.. that's politics done
make tourism our number one .. invite all irish ex-pats home.. economy done

we'll all live happily ever after , singing and dancing , writing poetry, making films

everyone gets a weekly giro-cheque and free broadband :)
 

LeDroit

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Mar 11, 2010
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1,768
yes
pull out of Rome, reform church of ireland, for all believers .. that's religion done
Unite the country under the triclour.. that's politics done
make tourism our number one .. invite all irish ex-pats home.. economy done

we'll all live happily ever after , singing and dancing , writing poetry, making films

everyone gets a weekly giro-cheque and free broadband :)
Right. That's it, decision made, no more govt grants for 'the arts'.
 

Cael

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In particular, the people go the Left in a recession thinking that someone else should pay for them.
Are you really so dellusional? Or do you just not follow current affairs? Its the developers and bankers who think that someone else - everyone else - should pay for them. Its the Right that want others to pay their debts.
 

LeDroit

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Are you really so dellusional? Or do you just not follow current affairs? Its the developers and bankers who think that someone else - everyone else - should pay for them. Its the Right that want others to pay their debts.
Absolutely not. What we seeing is the ultimate Left perversion. The State stepping in to save private enterprise. Socialising private losses. Utterly the wrong strategy. The banks should be subject to the market, ie they should fail if need be. Instead we have an economic collapse on life support. Delaying the inevitable.

Socialism fails again.
 

Warren Poynt

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No, LeDroit.

We have two left-of-centre political parties in Ireland (The Labour Party and SF).

We have two centre or right of centre pol parties in Irl, i.e FG and the rapdily declining FF (following in the footsteps of the PDs).

Are you suggesting this country either requires or needs a right or extreme right-wing party to balance out the political continuum ?

Have you learned nothing from history ?
 

Cael

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Absolutely not. What we seeing is the ultimate Left perversion. The State stepping in to save private enterprise. Socialising private losses. Utterly the wrong strategy. The banks should be subject to the market, ie they should fail if need be. Instead we have an economic collapse on life support. Delaying the inevitable.

Socialism fails again.
Socialising private losses is not Socialism - its capitalism. Its what capitalism always does - simply because any capitalist system is ruled by capitalists, and they will always use the state to feed their profits and pay their losses.

Its the never ending failure of capitalism.
 

LeDroit

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No, LeDroit.

We have two left-of-centre political parties in Ireland (The Labour Party and SF).

We have two centre or right of centre pol parties in Irl, i.e FG and the rapdily declining FF (following in the footsteps of the PDs).

Are you suggesting this country either requires or needs a right or extreme right-wing party to balance out the political continuum ?

Have you learned nothing from history ?
How could you say that FF or FG are 'right wing parties'. They both want to socialise the bank losses. Crackers. A proper Right party would leave losses where they belong- with the investors. Don't fool yourself.
 

LeDroit

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Socialising private losses is not Socialism - its capitalism. Its what capitalism always does - simply because any capitalist system is ruled by capitalists, and they will always use the state to feed their profits and pay their losses.

Its the never ending failure of capitalism.
Nope. It's the 'big' state stepping in where it's not needed. Go away. Let the market decide. Fu(£ing statists.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

How could you say that FF or FG are 'right wing parties'. They both want to socialise the bank losses. Crackers. A proper Right party would leave losses where they belong- with the investors. Don't fool yourself.
FG and FF are right-wing parties. FG slightly more to the right than FF but FF are more "statist" that FG.

It's not only the 'real' right who believe that private debts should not be socialised! Many on the left have been calling for it for years.
 

Warren Poynt

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LeDroit, Please read these posts more carefully.

I did NOT, repeat NOT, describe FG and FF, as "right wing parties", as you allege.

I described them as 'right of centre' parties, an appelation I'm sure they would not repudiate.

May I again ask why you think there is a need for a right wing or new extreme right wing political party to balance out the political continuum ?

Have you learned nothing from history ?

The market has already decided there is no room for right wing or extreme right wing political parties in Ireland.
 

LeDroit

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LeDroit, Please read these posts more carefully.

I did NOT, repeat NOT, describe FG and FF, as "right wing parties", as you allege.

I described them as 'right of centre' parties, an appelation I'm sure they would not repudiate.

May I again ask why you think there is a need for a right wing or new extreme right wing political party to balance out the political continuum ?

Have you learned nothing from history ?
Because we have NO-ONE who will let the Market decide. The State should not pick up the tab for private business failure. FF,FG, Labour are all statist bail out merchants.
 

Sariel

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Because we have NO-ONE who will let the Market decide. The State should not pick up the tab for private business failure. FF,FG, Labour are all statist bail out merchants.
Do you think the state should safeguard the peoples deposits?
 

LeDroit

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Do you think the state should safeguard the peoples deposits?
No. But they did so freeze the banks deposits and transfer them to An Post. Then let the banks fall. Burn and reborn.
 

Sariel

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No. But they did so freeze the banks deposits and transfer them to An Post. Then let the banks fall. Burn and reborn.
Why? If by your reckoning the state should let the market do what it wants, then it clearly wants to close all the banks down. The state can still do this, all it has to do is step off the path their on.
 

Warren Poynt

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LeDroit,

You seem to think the market is king.

If the market (i.e. the Irish electorate) is king, why do you think the market has found no place (bar the historically and politically forgotten PDs) for any right wing or extreme right wing party which you seem so favour ?

Have you learned nothing from history ?
 

GDPR

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Would guaranteeing the deposits have not been cheaper than guaranteeing deposits + debts + bondholders ? Plus would it not have been way more sensible ?
 

LeDroit

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LeDroit,

You seem to think the market is king.

If the market (i.e. the Irish electorate) is king, why do you think the market has found no place (bar the historically and politically forgotten PDs) for any right wing or extreme right wing party which you seem so favour ?

Have you learned nothing from history ?
Because who wants to hear that you're responsible for your actions. Better to hear that it's not your fault, it's the bold bankers/speculators/developers/politicians and that 'we' are on your side and will blady bla.

Populism works because human beings are cowards.
 


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