Is there a 3rd way?

LeDroit

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Le Droit you would fail political economy 101 with that understanding. You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. That is not socialism and either you are being deceptive or your understanding of political economy is low.
Do you think State bailouts of private industries up to and including nationalisation is Right thinking? Come on now, you're a better poster than that. This is the Statist monster run rampant.
 


Berliner

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We have big spending populists in power who have built the biggest welfare state in Europe.
I have been all over europe and let me tell you Ireland und the UK have one of the worst welfare states not to mention public transport and health care. It seems you are either not very educated or not been around much. I assume you have never been to Sweden to see what a welfare state looks like.


The Left has failed.
We have not even startet yet.
 

LeDroit

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I have been all over europe and let me tell you Ireland und the UK have one of the worst welfare states not to mention public transport and health care. It seems you are either not very educated or not been around much. I assume you have never been to Sweden to see what a welfare state looks like.
Apologies for the confusion. I meant welfare rates.



We have not even startet yet.
Terrifying.
 

Berliner

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Apologies for the confusion. I meant welfare rates.
The same applies for the welfare rates. Neoliberalism has destroyed irish society and public life just to make a few people rich. Results are the worst health care system in the whole of the EU, sorry second worst, Lithuania takes the crown of being last. Public transport is an absolute disaster and one of the most inefficient in the whole EU.

Capitalism has failed and its time to look for an alternative.
 

Berliner

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A socialist market economy is needed where the market serves the need of the people. In Capitalism the market is only a place for a few to play with money and with the lifes of millions of people.

Thats why we need a 3rd way and thats a democratic socialism.
 

Toland

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The same applies for the welfare rates. Neoliberalism has destroyed irish society and public life just to make a few people rich. Results are the worst health care system in the whole of the EU, sorry second worst, Lithuania takes the crown of being last. Public transport is an absolute disaster and one of the most inefficient in the whole EU.

Capitalism has failed and its time to look for an alternative.
+1*

Jaysus! You're a lot closer to Berlin than Boston!




* though, by all accounts, Romania's healthcare system is horrendous.
 

Berliner

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+1*

Jaysus! You're a lot closer to Berlin than Boston!




* though, by all accounts, Romania's healthcare system is horrendous.
Obviously:D

Although I like Boston very much.

Its true Romania's health care system is not very pretty but what does that say about Ireland being second last on an EU scale?
 

Tea Party Patriot

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How could you say that FF or FG are 'right wing parties'. They both want to socialise the bank losses. Crackers. A proper Right party would leave losses where they belong- with the investors. Don't fool yourself.
+100

You are spot on LeDroit there is nothing economically right-wing about our two main parties.

As for the so called "bailout" well it's going to enlarge our deficite and collapse our economy in the medium term. And yes we do need a third way, a true libertarian way that fosters growth and employment and spurns government socialising private losses.
 

Toland

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Obviously:D

Although I like Boston very much.

Its true Romania's health care system is not very pretty but what does that say about Ireland being second last on an EU scale?
From what I hear, Ireland's is still better than the one on Romania by quite a stretch. But that's not saying much.


As someone who suffered two middle-sized health scares in Germany I do not at all resent the payments I have to make every month to Techniker Krankenkasse, large and all as that payment will seem to Irish viewers (about €350 or so).
 

Berliner

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And yes we do need a third way, a true libertarian way that fosters growth and employment and spurns government socialising private losses.
We had 100% neo-liberalism over the last two decades. Its enough now! I am fed up with experiments and monopoly games that ruin the lifes of millions of people.

If you need a testground do it online with a computer game where you can simulate a society and where no real people get hurd.
 

Berliner

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From what I hear, Ireland's is still better than the one on Romania by quite a stretch. But that's not saying much.


As someone who suffered two middle-sized health scares in Germany I do not at all resent the payments I have to make every month to Techniker Krankenkasse, large and all as that payment will seem to Irish viewers (about €350 or so).
Totally agree! People easily spend money on drinks and cigaretts but when it comes to spending money on their health they suddenly start to complain. I have no problems with spending money on my health as long as a quality service is provided and thats where the problem lies in Ireland, its a crap health care system.
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Totally agree! People easily spend money on drinks and cigaretts but when it comes to spending money on their health they suddenly start to complain. I have no problems with spending money on my health as long as a quality service is provided and thats where the problem lies in Ireland, its a crap health care system.
The problem in our health care system is not the amount of money spent on it, there is more than sufficient funding in place, but it is totally and utterly mismanaged. Tell me why does a hotel room cost on average €100 per night while a bed in a hospital costs €500 outside of medical and equipment costs?
 

Toland

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Totally agree! People easily spend money on drinks and cigaretts but when it comes to spending money on their health they suddenly start to complain. I have no problems with spending money on my health as long as a quality service is provided and thats where the problem lies in Ireland, its a crap health care system.
... but not quite as crap as the Latvian one or the Romanian one, right?
 

Berliner

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... but not quite as crap as the Latvian one or the Romanian one, right?
According to the EU its the latvian neighbour Lithuania. I don't know if Romania was part of the EU wide study at the time.
 

Pauli

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But the PDs weren't right of centre in the end. They weren't fiscal conservatives. They weren't laissez fair in service markets. They became statist, big spending, pro cyclical and anti competition. They promoted the loss of Monetary sovereignty. So you're argument doesn't hold. They allowed themselves to become irrelevant by not distinguishing themselves. A true right of centre party would be a breath of fresh air now.
The PDs became as utterly corrupt as FF without a party machine to re-elect most of the duds in it. They had very little idea what they were doing most of the time and seem to have relied on IBEC policy papers to formulate their political philosophy. When these dried up, the duds had no original ideas of their own and went from a party with a neo-liberal agenda to an appendix of FF with all that that entailed.
 

Berliner

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The problem in our health care system is not the amount of money spent on it, there is more than sufficient funding in place, but it is totally and utterly mismanaged. Tell me why does a hotel room cost on average €100 per night while a bed in a hospital costs €500 outside of medical and equipment costs?
I think its both mismanagment and underfunding. A bed doesn't need to cost 500 Euros but the problem is that the neoliberal FF/PD turned the health care system into an enterprise for making money instead of being a quality service for the people paid by the people. They created a two class system where the better off pay their private insurances which then causes a lack of funding for the public health sector. A health care system thats based on solidarity and not profiteering where everybody pays their fair share would not need to charge 500 Euros a day for a bed.
 

Tim Johnston

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A socialist market economy is needed where the market serves the need of the people. In Capitalism the market is only a place for a few to play with money and with the lifes of millions of people.

Thats why we need a 3rd way and thats a democratic socialism.
no, no, no, the market is the people. The market is the combined collective actions of everybody- it's just a measurement of what people do.

We do need another way of looking at government, one that hands far less power to politicians and their cronies.
 

Tim Johnston

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I think its both mismanagment and underfunding. A bed doesn't need to cost 500 Euros but the problem is that the neoliberal FF/PD turned the health care system into an enterprise for making money instead of being a quality service for the people paid by the people. They created a two class system where the better off pay their private insurances which then causes a lack of funding for the public health sector. A health care system thats based on solidarity and not profiteering where everybody pays their fair share would not need to charge 500 Euros a day for a bed.
I've never understood socialist opposition to two-tier healthcare as anything other than ideological. If those who have more money can fund their own healthcare outside of the state system, does that not leave more resources free for those inside the state system? It's a win-win situation.
 


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