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Is there a future for FG ?


jetttxyz

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May 5, 2008
Messages
862
Some people (who think they're in the know) question the future longetivity of the PDs.
Legitimate question.

I ask.....is there a future for FG ?

Let's take a factual look at the results of the next general election...no matter what year it's called.

FF will be the party with the most seats.
They'll sit and wait for other parties to make a move towards forming a government....and they'll all (except FG) will do a Finian McGrath to get into government.
So, FF will form a government on an agreed Programme for Government with the Greens, Independents (including Mick Lowry), Sinn Fein (yes, because they've proven them selves in NI) and the PDs.
FF cannot form a government with Labour bewcause they'll have to give half the cabinet seats to them....and the FF ministers will revolt if this happens.

so, we'll have another FF-led government.

The point is: A vote for FG is a wasted vote. They'll never get into government.
If you don't believe me, ask Paddy Power to give you the odds on FG getting into government next time round...or the one after that.

If the PDs get even one seat, they'll be in government for definite!
 

Rocky

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Dec 9, 2004
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8,550
And what happens if enough people vote for FG and Labour to give them a majority of seats?
 

Apparatchik

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May 23, 2007
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169
The idea that a bunch of nouveaux riches like Fianna Fáil can't be trusted with the people's money, has long been Fine Gael's theme, How much impact it has on voters who have deserted Fine Gael is a moot point, because Fianna Fáil's strongest card remains the "you've-never-had-it-so-good" message. It is hard to argue with those who say that Fine Gael will only be successful with its value-for-money strategy when it can concretely show how it would use the cash, and how it will avoid waste and produce better services.
Headline grabbing tax cuts cannot be economically or socially justified, but they appeal to the core middle-class vote that Fine Gael must hold and recover if it is to have any prospect of government.
 

libertarian-right

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2,492
jetttxyz said:
FF cannot form a government with Labour bewcause they'll have to give half the cabinet seats to them....and the FF ministers will revolt if this happens.
Well if they dont have the numbers they might have to! At the moment I can only see either this present government returned or a FF/Lab government, still along time to go until elections....
 

tonys

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Oct 5, 2005
Messages
195
They only have to hang in long enough. FF cannot stay in Government for ever and maintain any sort of drive, eventually the tide turns, it always does.
 

JCSkinner

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I'd like to think no. I'd like to think FF and FG would merge, forming one big corrupt morass of scumbags we could machine gun.
Then when we'd done that, we could intern the Shinners, and permit electoral politics among those who remained.
We'd end up with a proper left-right divide, with some hippy greens and the odd nationalist. All very normal.
Instead, we currently have the electable corrupt right wing party and the unelectable one.
FG need to do some serious thinking if they're not going to be in perma-opposition. I'd suggest now is a good time to act. Drop unelectable Inda, put Rich Bruton in charge, and really go for it. FG need to position themselves like the Tory Cameron in order to really put the pressure on FF. But if even the Tories could bounce back, so can the blueshirts. Just not under Inda.
 

rasher

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Jun 19, 2003
Messages
15
JCSkinner said:
I'd like to think no. I'd like to think FF and FG would merge, forming one big corrupt morass of scumbags we could machine gun.
Then when we'd done that, we could intern the Shinners, and permit electoral politics among those who remained.
We'd end up with a proper left-right divide, with some hippy greens and the odd nationalist. All very normal.
Instead, we currently have the electable corrupt right wing party and the unelectable one.
FG need to do some serious thinking if they're not going to be in perma-opposition. I'd suggest now is a good time to act. Drop unelectable Inda, put Rich Bruton in charge, and really go for it. FG need to position themselves like the Tory Cameron in order to really put the pressure on FF. But if even the Tories could bounce back, so can the blueshirts. Just not under Inda.
I've seen this mentioned on here a few times now. What makes you think Richard Bruton would be more electable as Taoiseach than Enda? I really don't think it would make a blind bit of difference
 

JCSkinner

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Enda's electability is zero. You can't match that for unelectability. Bruton, especially in comparison to Cowen, would perform very well. He might stand a chance of getting FG elected. God knows, Inda hasn't a hope.
 

Sidewinder

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Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
442
FG's problem is a lack of ruthlessness. They're just too effette. And they tend to go in for convoluted "explanations" of their oh-so-"nuanced" policy positions.

And so FF retain a lock on the 40% yahoo vote that exists in any society. It's exactly how Maggie Thatcher stayed in power in Britain as well. Look after yer mates and the rest of the electorate can go hang.

Simplify the message and get stuck in on a constituency-by-constituency basis, attacking every dodgy corrupt moronic FF TD and linking crap services right back to the gombeen FF TDs that voted for them. Stop FF TDs getting away with the old "both-sides-of-the-mouth" opposition-in-government bolloxology.

"You, Mr Gombeen O'Sleveenery, are a FF TD. This is FF Government policy. You voted for it in the Dáil. It is your fault, ya greasy chancer"

Take them out, take them down. No mercy. No surrender, no retreat. Wipe the bastards out, destroy their credibility, flail them mercilessly for their sins over 11 years of mismanagement and incompetence and corruption. Make voting FF something dirty in the minds of Seamus and Mary.

Now, FG might not be the main beneficiaries of such an approach. Maybe Labour, Greens, SF, whoever might be the ones that pick up all the FF seats. Does it matter who wins the seats, as long as it isn't another FF gangster? Drive FF down so low even an FF/Lab coalition isn't a runner. If FG is any use, they'll be able to prove their credentials in the Third Inter Party Government that follows and become the clear largest party in the election following.

The primary aim right now is to get the gangsters out of power before they bankrupt the country forever. Nothing is more important than that. So, are FG really patriots looking to serve Ireland with honour, or are you just another herd of piggies at the trough?

It's put up or shut up time for FG. This isn't about whether Kenny or Bruton would be a better leader. The game just got much bigger than that.
 

JCSkinner

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Except Enda would never endorse such a policy. So it is Enda vs someone with the sense, political ability and gravitas to pull off what you suggest.
And that's a pretty short list in the FG PP. Can you see beyond Richard Bruton? I can't.
 

tonys

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
195
Sidewinder said:
Simplify the message and get stuck in on a constituency-by-constituency basis, attacking every dodgy corrupt moronic FF TD and linking crap services right back to the gombeen FF TDs that voted for them. Stop FF TDs getting away with the old "both-sides-of-the-mouth" opposition-in-government bolloxology.

"You, Mr Gombeen O'Sleveenery, are a FF TD. This is FF Government policy. You voted for it in the Dáil. It is your fault, ya greasy chancer"

Take them out, take them down. No mercy. No surrender, no retreat. Wipe the bastards out, destroy their credibility, flail them mercilessly for their sins over 11 years of mismanagement and incompetence and corruption. Make voting FF something dirty in the minds of Seamus and Mary.
And the FF TD’s will stand there stum and take it, Yes indeed, another brilliant analysis by sidewinder.
 

flyer

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Mar 30, 2007
Messages
45
Fine Gael under Richard Bruton will be the primary partner in a FG/Lab/Green coalition in 4 years.

Fine Gael under Enda Kenny will be the only parliamentary party on the island of Ireland who has not won a general election (i.e. gone into power afterwards) in 40 years.

That's the choice Fine Gael members have to make.
 

flyer

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Mar 30, 2007
Messages
45
flyer said:
Fine Gael under Richard Bruton will be the primary partner in a FG/Lab/Green coalition in 4 years.

Fine Gael under Enda Kenny will be the only parliamentary party on the island of Ireland who has not won a general election (i.e. gone into power afterwards) in 40 years.

That's the choice Fine Gael members have to make.
 

flyer

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Mar 30, 2007
Messages
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JCSkinner said:
Except Enda would never endorse such a policy. So it is Enda vs someone with the sense, political ability and gravitas to pull off what you suggest.
And that's a pretty short list in the FG PP. Can you see beyond Richard Bruton? I can't.
Maybe Covney in 4 years. But it's a big maybe
 

droghedasouth

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May 10, 2007
Messages
1,092
Apparatchik said:
The idea that a bunch of nouveaux riches like Fianna Fáil can't be trusted with the people's money, has long been Fine Gael's theme, How much impact it has on voters who have deserted Fine Gael is a moot point, because Fianna Fáil's strongest card remains the "you've-never-had-it-so-good" message. It is hard to argue with those who say that Fine Gael will only be successful with its value-for-money strategy when it can concretely show how it would use the cash, and how it will avoid waste and produce better services.
Headline grabbing tax cuts cannot be economically or socially justified, but they appeal to the core middle-class vote that Fine Gael must hold and recover if it is to have any prospect of government.
FF conviced enough people to stay with the winning team and not risk ending the boom to win GE2007.

And when we have the election in 2011, and there is no way this government will go to 2012, just exactly how will FF be able to say that "you've-never-had-it-so-good"?
 

hiding behind a poster

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Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,276
The amount of rubbish in this thread really is spectacular. I found particularly amusing that, with a record of eleven successive election victories in Mayo, and with as leader a record of getting to within 8 seats out of 882 at council level in 2004, getting the most MEPs elected in 2004, beating FF in a straight fight in Meath for the first time in 80 years in 2005, making the highest comparative seat gain in Irish political history in 2007 (and, in gaining 20 seats, being the only party to gain ANY seats in that election), and subsequently seeing FG's opinion poll ratings climb from the mid-20s to the 30% mark (for the first time since the 1980s), "Enda Kenny has zero electability".

I know we had Darren Mac An Phriora on another thread saying he wanted a debate on Enda Kenny's leadership of FG, but on condition that people weren't allowed mention his achievements, but only talk about his flaws - but would anyone mind addressing the points made above, and how they relate to Enda Kenny's supposed "zero electability"?
 

White Horse

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Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
7,064
If Politics.ie was around in 1938, someone would have posted a similar topic. Ditto for every decade subsequently.

Yet FG are still here, and still command the support of betwwen a quarter to a third of the electorate.
 
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