Is there a Time and Place for Violence?

General Urko

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I, on a personal level would never engage in violence except in self defence, but I would never get my violent side (for what of a better term) excised.
But to say violence solves nothing isn't entirely correct, without some measure of violence would we still have Apartheid South Africa and would The CNR population in Nordieland still be oppressed?
Of the 2 countries that I know of which don't have armies, Iceland and Costa Rica, the latter has a particularily vicious local militia.
So is there a time and place for it or should we all lie down and die in the face of bullies, whether that is an individual or the state?
 


GDPR

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Definitely there is.

One of my best friends is a strict pacifist as in literally believes in turning the other cheek in all circumstances and would actually die rather than be violent however most pacifists are sentimentalist cowardly scum. One of the biggest psychopaths I have ever come across claimed to be a pacifist.
 

DavidCaldwell

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I, on a personal level would never engage in violence except in self defence, but I would never get my violent side (for what of a better term) excised.
But to say violence solves nothing isn't entirely correct, without some measure of violence would we still have Apartheid South Africa and would The CNR population in Nordieland still be oppressed?
Of the 2 countries that I know of which don't have armies, Iceland and Costa Rica, the latter has a particularily vicious local militia.
So is there a time and place for it or should we all lie down and die in the face of bullies, whether that is an individual or the state?
To my mind, for Northern Ireland, any argument that violence was necessary in 1969 and onwards to achieve full civil rights is a misreading of history. In 1969, prior to the violence, in both Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole, majority popular opinion and the then prime ministers were in favour of rectifying the discrimination. It is true that some elements within Unionism were against this, but it is difficult to argue that, in the scenario of no violence, they would have prevailed.
 

General Urko

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Such is the lack of response here, can I take it, you are mostly either extremely violent or total doormats?:rolleyes:
 

blinding

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A lot of countries have armies.......trained in violence..... its pretty popular .

Successful violence is very popular with human kind.........Success is the key.....
 

jmcc

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This does seem to be straying into the "Just War" question.
 

GDPR

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Violence is everywhere . How many freely choose to pay taxes or only do it because of the threat of being taken by controlled violence to a prison cell ? Many were bullied and threatened by psychological violence into paying money to Irish Water .
 

McSlaggart

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To my mind, for Northern Ireland, any argument that violence was necessary in 1969 and onwards to achieve full civil rights is a misreading of history. In 1969, prior to the violence, in both Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole, majority popular opinion and the then prime ministers were in favour of rectifying the discrimination. It is true that some elements within Unionism were against this, but it is difficult to argue that, in the scenario of no violence, they would have prevailed.
Why if they security forces was happy to see people protesting about discrimination did they baton and kick the ************************ out of them?

More interestingly why did the Unionist parties not run in elections on that particular manifesto pledge?
 

benroe

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I, on a personal level would never engage in violence except in self defence, but I would never get my violent side (for what of a better term) excised.
But to say violence solves nothing isn't entirely correct, without some measure of violence would we still have Apartheid South Africa and would The CNR population in Nordieland still be oppressed?
Of the 2 countries that I know of which don't have armies, Iceland and Costa Rica, the latter has a particularily vicious local militia.
So is there a time and place for it or should we all lie down and die in the face of bullies, whether that is an individual or the state?
Anytime ,any place General, you just have to agree that its ok to punch nazi's ,you then label all those who disagree with you as nazi's and you have a green light to punch whoever you want.
 

silverharp

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being targeted ethnically within a state would be a reason to at least take up some defensive resistance. Or if by some madness your country was likely to turn communist , the decision would be fight or flight.
 

DavidCaldwell

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Why if they security forces was happy to see people protesting about discrimination did they baton and kick the ************************ out of them?

More interestingly why did the Unionist parties not run in elections on that particular manifesto pledge?

The UUP did in 1969 - "Ulster at the cross-roads" UUP manifesto 1969.

"The Party acknowledges and proclaims the right of all citizens to equal treatment under the law, to full equality in the enjoyment of health, education and other social benefits, and to the protection of authority against every kind of injustice."

"The reforms announced on 22nd November, 1968 will be carried out as rapidly as possible. The Londonderry Commission has now been appointed: new schemes of housing allocation are being formulated; and, as promised, Regulations under the Special Powers Act will be reviewed as soon as it is clear that the country has returned to a peaceful state. Bills to establish a Parliamentary Commissioner (or Ombudsman) and to abolish the company vote in local government elections will be introduced very early in the new Parliament. And once the basis for the re-structuring of local government has been determined, consideration will he given to a general review of the local government franchise in the context of the new pattern proposed for local government bodies."
 

General Urko

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The UUP did in 1969 - "Ulster at the cross-roads" UUP manifesto 1969.

"The Party acknowledges and proclaims the right of all citizens to equal treatment under the law, to full equality in the enjoyment of health, education and other social benefits, and to the protection of authority against every kind of injustice."

"The reforms announced on 22nd November, 1968 will be carried out as rapidly as possible. The Londonderry Commission has now been appointed: new schemes of housing allocation are being formulated; and, as promised, Regulations under the Special Powers Act will be reviewed as soon as it is clear that the country has returned to a peaceful state. Bills to establish a Parliamentary Commissioner (or Ombudsman) and to abolish the company vote in local government elections will be introduced very early in the new Parliament. And once the basis for the re-structuring of local government has been determined, consideration will he given to a general review of the local government franchise in the context of the new pattern proposed for local government bodies."
Actually a few elections ago, I can't remember which one, they have so many up there, perhaps UK GE 2010, I remember being astonished at how inclusive, The Unionist Party (not DUP) pre election ad was or at least tried to be!
If they had been inclusive since partition, we might be gagging to unify the island within The UK, but they weren't and the rest is history!
 

McSlaggart

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The UUP did in 1969 - "Ulster at the cross-roads" UUP manifesto 1969.

"The Party acknowledges and proclaims the right of all citizens to equal treatment under the law, to full equality in the enjoyment of health, education and other social benefits, and to the protection of authority against every kind of injustice."
The pity is they did not act on making those things happen.
 


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