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Is there anything to be said for Eurofederalism?


Concerned Irishman

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I see there are the first moves being made to set up an Irish Section of the Young European Federalists this weekend. It makes me wonder whether there is anything to be said for the medium term goal of a federal Union with full state power over foreign affairs, defence, certain aspects of Justice (there would need to be some sort of federal police force with the power of investigation and arrest - transnational crime is a huge issue. Frankly I don't know why they haven't taken steps to give Europol some teeth already) and the economy, and leaving the rest to member governments.

There are several reasons why this would be more efficient - and would be better for Ireland. For one thing, a single eurobond would make things a lot easier economically. For another, there is no reason for the amount of defence spending duplication across the EU - create a single defence department for the EU and spend the money saved on reducing duplication elsewhere. As explained above, some sort of investigtory body could crack down on organized transnational crime far more effectively than innumerable member state police forces. For many reasons, we are stronger together than we are apart.

Is it just petty nationalism that stops an ever closer Union from happening?
 


R3volution_R3ady

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There would be bloodbaths in every European city before that fantasy ever come to fruition. The EU is finished. People are questioning it, not supporting it.
 

Lain2016

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Mar 1, 2011
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7,713
I see there are the first moves being made to set up an Irish Section of the Young European Federalists this weekend. It makes me wonder whether there is anything to be said for the medium term goal of a federal Union with full state power over foreign affairs, defence, certain aspects of Justice (there would need to be some sort of federal police force with the power of investigation and arrest - transnational crime is a huge issue. Frankly I don't know why they haven't taken steps to give Europol some teeth already) and the economy, and leaving the rest to member governments.

There are several reasons why this would be more efficient - and would be better for Ireland. For one thing, a single eurobond would make things a lot easier economically. For another, there is no reason for the amount of defence spending duplication across the EU - create a single defence department for the EU and spend the money saved on reducing duplication elsewhere. As explained above, some sort of investigtory body could crack down on organized transnational crime far more effectively than innumerable member state police forces. For many reasons, we are stronger together than we are apart.

Is it just petty nationalism that stops an ever closer Union from happening?
They should introduce conscription while they are at it...yeh! :rolleyes:
 

goosebump

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May 23, 2008
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I see there are the first moves being made to set up an Irish Section of the Young European Federalists this weekend. It makes me wonder whether there is anything to be said for the medium term goal of a federal Union with full state power over foreign affairs, defence, certain aspects of Justice (there would need to be some sort of federal police force with the power of investigation and arrest - transnational crime is a huge issue. Frankly I don't know why they haven't taken steps to give Europol some teeth already) and the economy, and leaving the rest to member governments.

There are several reasons why this would be more efficient - and would be better for Ireland. For one thing, a single eurobond would make things a lot easier economically. For another, there is no reason for the amount of defence spending duplication across the EU - create a single defence department for the EU and spend the money saved on reducing duplication elsewhere. As explained above, some sort of investigtory body could crack down on organized transnational crime far more effectively than innumerable member state police forces. For many reasons, we are stronger together than we are apart.

Is it just petty nationalism that stops an ever closer Union from happening?
Anything that creates further separation between the Irish electorate and the levers or power would be welcome in my book.
 

Concerned Irishman

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A true federalism need not seperate people from the levers of power, but deepen democracy and give more impact to their decisions.

And why would there be a bloodbath? Nationalism is irrational - and it has failed and is continuing to fail. Not only that, it is responsible for the most horrific violence the world has ever seen
 

harshreality

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If course, there are many things to be said for Eurofederalism!

Now I won't say those things are good but still they can be said:)
 

SilverSpurs

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Nov 27, 2009
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I see there are the first moves being made to set up an Irish Section of the Young European Federalists this weekend. It makes me wonder whether there is anything to be said for the medium term goal of a federal Union with full state power over foreign affairs, defence, certain aspects of Justice (there would need to be some sort of federal police force with the power of investigation and arrest - transnational crime is a huge issue. Frankly I don't know why they haven't taken steps to give Europol some teeth already) and the economy, and leaving the rest to member governments.

There are several reasons why this would be more efficient - and would be better for Ireland. For one thing, a single eurobond would make things a lot easier economically. For another, there is no reason for the amount of defence spending duplication across the EU - create a single defence department for the EU and spend the money saved on reducing duplication elsewhere. As explained above, some sort of investigtory body could crack down on organized transnational crime far more effectively than innumerable member state police forces. For many reasons, we are stronger together than we are apart.

Is it just petty nationalism that stops an ever closer Union from happening?
In a democracy people are allowed espouse views I find abhorrent so best of luck to them. I would say they would need to be clear who their financial backers are.
On your points:
1- Eurobonds are the latest Santa Claus of the left that allows the overspending circus to do a few more laps before it crashes uncerimoniously.
2- We have no need for mutual defence and good reasons not to do so. Anyway if our circumstances ever change then NATO would be the logical choice not a French pipedream of NATO without the yanks.
3- We have interpol for international police taskwork why waste money duplicating it and why replace it with something above legal inquiry.
 

Ribeye

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Hmmm, an interesting question, let me ponder this for a moment before reaching a measured response.......






DEATH TO THE CORRUPT EVIL EU AND ALL IT'S SCUMBAG LEADERS!!!


Yep, that about covers it,
 

Concerned Irishman

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Because the whole Irish nationalism thing worked out so well didn't it? How much is our debt now?
 

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

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Why can't we have an economic union without having to join a supranational state?

Ireland would have no say in the running of affairs. Why would this be good for Ireland? We have already seen Europe's disregard for the people of Ireland through, among other things, their screwing us over on our debt and the banning of harnessing our wealth of natural fish resources- an area that could bring massive financial gains should we leave the EU.
 

SilverSpurs

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Anything that creates further separation between the Irish electorate and the levers or power would be welcome in my book.
Funny how you never gave this honest answear during the Lisbon debates. Anyway perhaps the europhile mask slips. Europhiles are just elitists who see the EU as a means of imposing their agenda.
 

paddyrebel

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a euro federal state is an artifical construct moulded for the benefit of the ruling elite. why an irish person would want to back that is beyond me. enough now!
 

Ulster-Lad

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A true federalism need not seperate people from the levers of power, but deepen democracy and give more impact to their decisions.

And why would there be a bloodbath? Nationalism is irrational - and it has failed and is continuing to fail. Not only that, it is responsible for the most horrific violence the world has ever seen
Sure everyone should be on their knees begging for the table scraps.
 

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

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Because the whole Irish nationalism thing worked out so well didn't it? How much is our debt now?
Yes, that was nationalisms fault :roll:

Perhaps if our politicians had had a bit more national pride and felt a genuine duty to the people, we wouldn't be in this mess.
 

goosebump

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Yes, that was nationalisms fault :roll:

Perhaps if our politicians had had a bit more national pride and felt a genuine duty to the people, we wouldn't be in this mess.
We wouldn't be in this mess if Governments had taken the nationalist stick out of their ars3s and agreed to centralized banking supervision in the Treaty of Maastricht.

No, we said, we're well capable of looking after our own banking system. How the hell are we going to sell 3-bed semis in Portlaoise for €400k if you're going to regulate our banks?
 

Concerned Irishman

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Yes, that was nationalisms fault :roll:

Perhaps if our politicians had had a bit more national pride and felt a genuine duty to the people, we wouldn't be in this mess.
I'm saying the independence experiment has failed - we did it for 100 years, and now we're a failed State saddled with a massive debt that our childrens grandchildren will be paying off. The Nation State is no longer the most efficient way of organizing society in a globalized world - perhaps as a sub unit in a larger whole, but not as the whole in and of itself.

In such a world, Nationalism seems irrational and petty. It is also responsible for an astronomical amount of violence worldwide
 

Concerned Irishman

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We wouldn't be in this mess if Governments had taken the nationalist stick out of their ars3s and agreed to centralized banking supervision in the Treaty of Maastricht.

No, we said, we're well capable of looking after our own banking system. How the hell are we going to sell 3-bed semis in Portlaoise for €400k if you're going to regulate our banks?
Exactly!
 

statsman

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Feb 25, 2011
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There would be bloodbaths in every European city before that fantasy ever come to fruition. The EU is finished. People are questioning it, not supporting it.
When did P.ie become a Fantasy Fan Fiction site?
 

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