• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.

Is there poison in our country?

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,153
Twitter
I have a life.
This is an excerpt from: Grieving developer urges NAMA to treat debtors 'with humanity' - National News - Independent.ie

In an emotional interview with the Irish Independent, Mr Paddy Kelly revealed the deep stresses that Mr O'Regan had been under in recent months as years of high profile clashes with his banks took a toll. "Hugh was deeply wounded by what was going on.

"There is no compassion, it's as though we don't care for each other anymore. There is a poison in our country, where did that come from?" asked Mr Kelly. Mr Kelly said that he was seeing developers whose loans have been transferred to NAMA who are now experiencing huge mental health problems.


Should we be a forgiving nation or should the people who rode the tiger and lost be welcomed back into the fold of those who are now picking up all the pieces of their mess, experiencing the deep stresses and also being screwed by the banks?
 


ottovonbismarck

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
3,164
Newton's second law of motion applies to not only gravity, but life- to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Regards...Isaac
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
This is an excerpt from: Grieving developer urges NAMA to treat debtors 'with humanity' - National News - Independent.ie

In an emotional interview with the Irish Independent, Mr Paddy Kelly revealed the deep stresses that Mr O'Regan had been under in recent months as years of high profile clashes with his banks took a toll. "Hugh was deeply wounded by what was going on.

"There is no compassion, it's as though we don't care for each other anymore. There is a poison in our country, where did that come from?" asked Mr Kelly. Mr Kelly said that he was seeing developers whose loans have been transferred to NAMA who are now experiencing huge mental health problems.


Should we be a forgiving nation or should the people who rode the tiger and lost be welcomed back into the fold of those who are now picking up all the pieces of their mess, experiencing the deep stresses and also being screwed by the banks?
Nama is only dealing with money and possessions. I doubt anyone is being put out on the street. If the developer class has become emotionally attached to the myth that they are wealthy - then Nama demolishing that myth is going to have an impact on their mental health.

I'm not sure what else Nama could do really. The 'compassion' these developers are calling for is actually a free ride. They want to keep their stuff, even though its all borrowed from the rest of us.
 

sic transit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
25,381
If you follow the logic for these individuals to their loans and the problems those loans caused for banks and by direct implications to us as taxpayers and of course our loss of financial control the reaction is very natural. While I can understand how someone allegedly worth millions has no cash it doesn't mean that I necessarily have any sympathy for them.

I also can't see what the big deal of having loans in NAMA is, bar having someone who will keep a far closer eye on what they are doing.
 

willow68

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
1,856
Tough one, Burnout. People should be given a second chance, generally, but in the case of high-and-mighty developers fallen on hard times I'd have to insist that they haven't put several million worth of money/foreign property in the wife's name three days before the bailiffs came a-knocking. I'm not referring to O'Regan, who seemed to have genuinely been in need of medical help. No one deserves to die the way he did, my sympathies to his young family.
 
B

Boggle

All people want is equilibrium restored. Nobody (worth mentioning) wants anyone to kill themselves or to suffer indefinitely, they just want justice for how this country has been destroyed by greed and developers are a fair target for anyone who bought an overpriced, substandard house which they are now suffering to pay for.

If there was justice coming from govt then it would blow over but here we still are propping up property prices and bailing out banks with no recriminations so people are just getting angrier.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,847
If anything they aren't hounding enough of the right people who caused the mess which the country is in.
I'll start to forgive and forget once this country starts to bring people who deserve it to justice. I can forgive someone once they are securely behind bars serving their sentence experiencing genuine remorse.
 

farnaby

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,930
"There is no compassion, it's as though we don't care for each other anymore. There is a poison in our country, where did that come from?" asked Mr Kelly.
Lack of compassion comes from greed - prioritising material gain over concern for our fellow beings. Compassion is also eroded by injustice - when a person gains unfair advantage over another.

Many developers and their banker friends were actively responsible for these trends - stimulating property hysteria, producing low quality 'units' in areas lacking in proper infrastructure, gaining advantage via undue political influence that often slipped into corruption, to benefit from planning decisions and tax breaks.

As Boggle has alluded to, righting injustices would go a long way to restoring compassion in this country.
 

emulator

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
10,206
If they want to be forgiven and want to start again why are the majority of them still keeping their dealings secret. If they want to be treated differently the first step would be the full disclosure of their dealings with NAMA. 800ish people have had the strain taken off them by the tax payer while many tax payers are going under.... what kind of reaction did they expect ?
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,539
Lack of compassion comes from greed - prioritising material gain over concern for our fellow beings. Compassion is also eroded by injustice - when a person gains unfair advantage over another.

Many developers and their banker friends were actively responsible for these trends - stimulating property hysteria, producing low quality 'units' in areas lacking in proper infrastructure, gaining advantage via undue political influence that often slipped into corruption, to benefit from planning decisions and tax breaks.

As Boggle has alluded to, righting injustices would go a long way to restoring compassion in this country.
Some developers did this.

Other developers produced and sold a product, no different to a turnip farmer or a guy that sells an App that allows you marj fart noises on your phone.

The market for this product then collapsed. The fact that this has destroyed their business in pretty intuitive in demonstrating that they didn't control the price of houses, or the market.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,539
If they want to be forgiven and want to start again why are the majority of them still keeping their dealings secret. If they want to be treated differently the first step would be the full disclosure of their dealings with NAMA. 800ish people have had the strain taken off them by the tax payer while many tax payers are going under.... what kind of reaction did they expect ?
I want full disclosure of your comemrcial and personal dealings with your bank.

And I also want it for yout family, friends and relations.

I just do.

It felt like the thing to ask for. Every other eejit is making half arsed demands based on no logic whatsoever - why shouldn't I?
 

EUrJokingMeRight

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
11,664
Some developers did this.

Other developers produced and sold a product, no different to a turnip farmer or a guy that sells an App that allows you marj fart noises on your phone.

The market for this product then collapsed. The fact that this has destroyed their business in pretty intuitive in demonstrating that they didn't control the price of houses, or the market.
Some??....More than 'some'.

In fact they consistently and recklessly broke the ethics guidelines issued by the Irish institute of building developers....

Oops, I must have imagined such an institution.
 

Toland

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
63,162
Website
www.aggressive-secularist.com
This is an excerpt from: Grieving developer urges NAMA to treat debtors 'with humanity' - National News - Independent.ie

In an emotional interview with the Irish Independent, Mr Paddy Kelly revealed the deep stresses that Mr O'Regan had been under in recent months as years of high profile clashes with his banks took a toll. "Hugh was deeply wounded by what was going on.

"There is no compassion, it's as though we don't care for each other anymore. There is a poison in our country, where did that come from?" asked Mr Kelly. Mr Kelly said that he was seeing developers whose loans have been transferred to NAMA who are now experiencing huge mental health problems.


Should we be a forgiving nation or should the people who rode the tiger and lost be welcomed back into the fold of those who are now picking up all the pieces of their mess, experiencing the deep stresses and also being screwed by the banks?
Very ill-judged remarks by Mr Kelly. Mr O'Regan's case is tragic, but it is simply wrong to blame public anger for his death.
 

sic transit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
25,381
Some developers did this.

Other developers produced and sold a product, no different to a turnip farmer or a guy that sells an App that allows you marj fart noises on your phone.

The market for this product then collapsed. The fact that this has destroyed their business in pretty intuitive in demonstrating that they didn't control the price of houses, or the market.
A bleak reminder at more cost to the taxpayer.
Over 1,100 ghost estates in problematic condition - RTÉ News

I think you are being far too kind to them TBH. Many found themselves completely overextended without enough assets of useful value.
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,153
Twitter
I have a life.
...Seems to me anybody who over borrowed are only picking up their own mess , unless you think all them big bad bankers and developers hypnotised them .
BB, We as a family did not borrow or over borrow during the tiger as we live within our means and I was brought up to buy low sell high, not vice versa. We bought land and built a home. I paid for all the materials etc and paid government tax on everything. But my point in the OP is that now I have to pay extra for everything as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. I am paying for their mistakes. Not mine.

So your answer to my question 'should we be a forgiving nation' is what?
 

sic transit

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
25,381
Let's discuss greed. Why do some people need more and more? The is some reason and I'm sure someone will have the decency to tell us all about it!
I think greed is a natural human condition and all the trappings it can bring are immensely attractive. I remember reading somewhere that millionaires are right wing and all about getting more and more money whereas those who get into the billions tend to become more left wing and inclined to give it away.
 

Spanner Island

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
23,974
I dunno...

It looks like there were a load of Irish Icarus's who flew far too close to the sun...

I'm sure it's totally galling for them to have NAMA chasing them and to see that the banker f***ers who were throwing money at them have escaped relatively unscathed with many of them having been rewarded with fat pay offs and pensions... God knows it is for everyone else...

I remember back in the early 2000's seeing Mick Wallace on TV3's Sunday morning business programme...

It was obvious from what he was saying that Mick didn't have much of a clue about anything and that he was just a small time builder who scaled up because it was easy to get the money to scale up...

But you know, these people were all big boys and girls and therefore should be taking the consequences of the disaster that has ensued...

I'm sure it is stressful for them and horrendous to see everything they had disappear... but that's life I'm afraid...

The real scandal here is that the w*nker bankers haven't been screwed and that none of them have been imprisoned yet...
 
Last edited:


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top