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Fun with Irish

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Tell that to the Unionists here, both North and South. There is a lot of them. Who all claim to be either English or British. Their flag is the Union jack. Not the Tricolour. If you go abroad, and speak English, it is assumed you are English/British. That is a fact.
To define yourself on the basis that you are not somebody else is already a devaluation of your own identity.
 

DJP

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It is a pretty expensive way in terms of pupil and teacher hours and other school resources. This week. for example, 3,000,000 plus Gaeilge lessons have to be delivered. Minimum - three million hours.
3 million hours this week? Are you sure you have the right stats there?
 

DJP

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If it still hasn't registered with you that Conradh na Gaeilge, who are older than the State and who have more influence now since the 6 Foras na Gaeilge-funded lead organisations came in, have held the most influence on politicians on the Irish language for decades and maybe even since the State's existence
To clarify my above statement- it's not a case of that CnaG "maybe" had the most influence on the Irish language on politicians since the foundation of the State- they did. I still haven't heard of any disagreements between CnaG and the Irish Governments in the first few decades of the State existence. And while politicians have often dismissed some CnaG policies as being unrealistic/fantasist CnaG are the oldest organisation providing a continuity of input to Irish Governments on Irish language policy since 1922 and they are not inclined to accept any profound if any mistakes today of their policies in the past even during the 1922-1973 period.
 

redneck

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What's your best guess of the number of Irish lessons delivered to schoolchildren in a year?

Then we'll take a weekly average...
Why are you not posting in Polish/French/German/Chinese. After all according to you, they are more important than English and Irish.
 

Fun with Irish

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Why are you not posting in Polish/French/German/Chinese. After all according to you, they are more important than English and Irish.
What's your estimate of the number of Irish lessons delivered in the school system in a year?

(You may use a calculator.)
 

Barroso

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Tell that to the Unionists here, both North and South. There is a lot of them. Who all claim to be either English or British. Their flag is the Union jack. Not the Tricolour.
If you go abroad, and speak English, it is assumed you are English/British. That is a fact.
Regarding expenses, well the Irish taxpayer bailed out the EU banks a few years ago. To the tune of 60 billion euros. About 7,000 euros for each man, woman and child on the island. That is expensive!
Excellent point. I haven't seen Fukwit suggest any solutions for the stranglehold the failed banks have over the country.
Rather than deal properly with the banks, several recent governments have actually made the failed banks more powerful than they already were, by forcing amalgamations - when the logical solution would have been to break them up and then ensure that a new cartel didn't form. There would have been widespread support for a move like that, but no, his/her/their major concern is that a policy that there has always received broad support throughout the state should be abandoned.
 

Granballoon

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I wonder if anyone would go for ending compulsory Irish in Second Level, the trade off being as many primary schools as possible go Gaelscoil; if they can get the teachers, of course. Nothing wrong with learning language acquisition skills IMO, too many kids coming up have only the one language, which leaves them exposed in job markets in the years to come. All mainlanders speak their native language and English. Many asian countries are pushing hard on the English. We badly need to equip our children with language learning skills, but by secondary school should be giving them more choice in the matter.

Dunno why we're talking about unionists and bailouts.
 

DJP

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We badly need to equip our children with language learning skills, but by secondary school should be giving them more choice in the matter.
In the 2011 GE the main argument against the proposal for making Irish optional for the Leaving Cert. was not educational but about the possible negative effect that the move could have on the summer colleges in the Gaeltacht i.e a result of the decision may be a big drop in the numbers of teenagers attending the colleges every year.
 

Granballoon

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In the 2011 GE the main argument against the proposal for making Irish optional for the Leaving Cert. was not educational but about the possible negative effect that the move could have on the summer colleges in the Gaeltacht i.e a result of the decision may be a big drop in the numbers of teenagers attending the colleges every year.
So in other words, a monetary decision, not a decision made with our kids in mind. Sounds like Ireland alright.
If we instill a desire for children to learn Irish well enough, especially in their formative primary school years, people would still opt for it. And again, there is no bad language acquisition, it all benefits in the end. But really, the world is becoming such a competitive place students deserve to have the time to focus their studies in the areas they choose. No other country forces a language that's dead in terms of commerce on their students, their native language is a skill to have that would be attractive to some employer. For us it's just about cultural preservation at this point.
 

DJP

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The Dept. of Education could increase the pay to the mná tí if there was a reduction in the number of students staying in the colleges and give some money to the people running the colleges also. It wouldn't work out as a huge amount proportionally in the big scheme of things if they did. This may well close the argument most of muintir na Gaeltachta have against the optional Irish proposal. Few people in the Gaeltacht are thinking on the same lines as the Irish-language promotional organisations on the matter.
 

Fun with Irish

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...........................

We badly need to equip our children with language learning skills, but by secondary school should be giving them more choice in the matter.
"giving them more choice in the matter" - that's the key.

In practice, all students who do Foundation Irish are already exercising the choice of not learning Irish. But they are still forced to sit in the classes and denied the choice of doing a different subject.

Seán Kyne when he was Minister for the Gaeltacht, famously said that any student who was exempted from Irish should be blocked from doing another language in its place. That was his attitude towards your aspiration of our students having more foreign languages!
 

Fun with Irish

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...........................

If we instill a desire for children to learn Irish well enough, especially in their formative primary school years, people would still opt for it.....
......
In 1922 the Chief Executive Officer in the Department of Education argued that through reviving Irish the outlook of the children would be "fixed in the Gaelic mould". The state officials are still trying to do that to-day and are still relying on compulsion.

But people are free - they make their own judgments. The officials can force Irish on schoolchildren but those children become adults and never use Irish again.
 

Fun with Irish

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The Dept. of Education could increase the pay ......
Yep: "increase the pay" all around. That's the key.

Paying more people to speak Irish is the way to get more people to speak Irish.

(Just during office hours, of course.)
 

DJP

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Yep: "increase the pay" all around. That's the key.

Paying more people to speak Irish is the way to get more people to speak Irish.

(Just during office hours, of course.)
Yeah, you probably wouldn't want a deal that enabled Irish to be optional for the Leaving Cert. as then you would have nothing or little to complain about.

And I believe that over the last decade or two the summer colleges in the Gaeltacht have become a lot better for speaking Irish so to say that Irish is only spoken in them during office hours is extremely cynical.
 

Patslatt1

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It would make it easier to hire teachers from abroad. Such as the UK who don’t have Irish.
At primary level, compulsory Irish is a barrier to entry. For instance,it prevents recruitment of many teachers from Poland and Romania to teach children from those countries.
 

Fun with Irish

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Yeah, you probably wouldn't want a deal that enabled Irish to be optional for the Leaving Cert. as then you would have nothing or little to complain about.

And I believe that over the last decade or two the summer colleges in the Gaeltacht have become a lot better for speaking Irish so to say that Irish is only spoken in them during office hours is extremely cynical.
A version of Irish being a subject of choice is seeping into the system anyway. 'Seeping' so that the politicians don't have to admit to it.

My grandchildren went to Gaeltacht Summer Colleges and had a good time with other teenagers. As summer camps for teens I'd say they have a good future. I think that when the kids were away from the officials they talked together in English. They certainly did when they met again in Dublin.
 

Fun with Irish

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At primary level, compulsory Irish is a barrier to entry. For instance,it prevents recruitment of many teachers from Poland and Romania to teach children from those countries.
Not that they would need much Irish to teach the Foundation Irish course.
 

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