Is this the end of Orangism?

AhNowStop

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May 23, 2017
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I have never came across a statement from unionists on here posting something like this ANS...….

There is no doubt 'Orangism' has lost its sway politically. And truthfully, that is a good thing.

That opens tangient debate/discussion unlike the looney tune "bonfires, flegs, marching crap" we are subjected to from our usual suspects on a regular basis.
Yes I agree Bel is a sensible pragmatic unionist and certainly not the normal loyalist troll that we get on here but unfortunately I dont believe that statement in bold is correct MM ...

I disagree with the message not the messenger (btw Ive edited & added to that post since you quoted it)
 


Mickeymac

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Yes I agree Bel is a sensible pragmatic unionist and certainly not the normal loyalist troll that we get on here but unfortunately I dont believe that statement in bold is correct MM ...

I disagree with the message not the messenger (btw Ive edited & added to that post since you quoted it)

My very point sir, Bel posted something worthy of debate and discussion.
 

Presbyterian Boy

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Interesting topic. There is no doubt 'Orangism' has lost its sway politically. And truthfully, that is a good thing. Non political independent institutions should not be allowed to dictate how a state is run. And it is a good thing the 'Orange state' is gone.

In saying that. The OO will always be around, and the 12th will always attract big crowds. At the core it is commemorating a battle. That happens world wide and I don't think anyone can truly object to that.

While for me the 12th is boring. I can understand the appeal that it brings to people. It is a family day with music, bands, entertainment etc.

The problem is not so much the order itself, but the actual supporters of the order. Get them riled up on the run up to the 12th and they become alcohol fuelled bigots with a 'ATAT' mentality.

The Orange Order museum was founded to give an understanding of the Order, and has attracted many catholic groups and visitors. Showing, that at the core the OO is about the 'Battle not the Bottle' and many have come away with a new understanding of what is, at the core a christian organisation preserving history. However it can't be said that many supporters (and some members) adhere to that principal.

They do need to take more steps to change the perception of being anti catholic. Lifting the ban on members attending Catholic services would go a long way to help the image. I can understand them not wanting to take part in Catholic services such as communion that happens during services . (I don't take part myself when at a catholic service) But an outright ban on going is long past needing changed. A move also needs to happen to show that you can celebrate your Protestant/Christian heritage without belittling the catholic faith and remembering it is a commemoration.

It is good to see that there is less and less trouble these days. But a lot of the bad image Orangism has is due to supporters and not the Order itself. However, the Order do have a big responsibility to speak out and say 'not in our name'

I've rambled enough. Have a nice day :)
The thing that will save the OO will be a UI. Of course, that is a UI which simply means the Union flag being lowered and the Tricolour raised. If it is, the OO will be forming new lodges to accommodate the influx of new members.
Of course, if a UI was a new, agreed Ireland - think Tone and McCracken etc - then there's a good possibility that the OO will go to the wall. I'm interested in what Republicans think about a new, agreed Ireland. Is it a betrayal of the men of 1916 etc?
Interesting topic. There is no doubt 'Orangism' has lost its sway politically. And truthfully, that is a good thing. Non political independent institutions should not be allowed to dictate how a state is run. And it is a good thing the 'Orange state' is gone.

In saying that. The OO will always be around, and the 12th will always attract big crowds. At the core it is commemorating a battle. That happens world wide and I don't think anyone can truly object to that.

While for me the 12th is boring. I can understand the appeal that it brings to people. It is a family day with music, bands, entertainment etc.

The problem is not so much the order itself, but the actual supporters of the order. Get them riled up on the run up to the 12th and they become alcohol fuelled bigots with a 'ATAT' mentality.

The Orange Order museum was founded to give an understanding of the Order, and has attracted many catholic groups and visitors. Showing, that at the core the OO is about the 'Battle not the Bottle' and many have come away with a new understanding of what is, at the core a christian organisation preserving history. However it can't be said that many supporters (and some members) adhere to that principal.

They do need to take more steps to change the perception of being anti catholic. Lifting the ban on members attending Catholic services would go a long way to help the image. I can understand them not wanting to take part in Catholic services such as communion that happens during services . (I don't take part myself when at a catholic service) But an outright ban on going is long past needing changed. A move also needs to happen to show that you can celebrate your Protestant/Christian heritage without belittling the catholic faith and remembering it is a commemoration.

It is good to see that there is less and less trouble these days. But a lot of the bad image Orangism has is due to supporters and not the Order itself. However, the Order do have a big responsibility to speak out and say 'not in our name'

I've rambled enough. Have a nice day :)
 

Golah veNekhar

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Dec 16, 2018
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1,451
The thing that will save the OO will be a UI. Of course, that is a UI which simply means the Union flag being lowered and the Tricolour raised. If it is, the OO will be forming new lodges to accommodate the influx of new members.
Of course, if a UI was a new, agreed Ireland - think Tone and McCracken etc - then there's a good possibility that the OO will go to the wall. I'm interested in what Republicans think about a new, agreed Ireland. Is it a betrayal of the men of 1916 etc?
Tone and McCracken were savages inspired by successful rebellion of some of England's North American colonies, which led to a blood bath for those who had remained loyal to HMG and what the French called the "Great Revolution". The whole thing of having orange on the fleg is disgusting- not least for what the "Glorious Revolution" meant for the common people of England, Scotland and Wales.
 

raetsel

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Jun 5, 2017
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I can understand them not wanting to take part in Catholic services such as communion that happens during services . (I don't take part myself when at a catholic service)
Not only are you not expected to take part in it, it is explicitly not permitted, as to be eligible, you need to be a baptised Catholic who has already gone through a process of preparation to receive the sacrament of Communion.
 


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