Is Unionism a Culture of Fear?

Mickeymac

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Far-right-wing Unionist in risible denial mode.


Unfortunately that same denial is a hindrance to everyone involved in any attempt to move forward, they even can't agree amongst themselves and identify who are victims of the conflict which mostly ended some 20 years ago.
 


former wesleyan

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Another gem :-

All of the murders in this period were driven by unionism which was in a state of fear and paranoia which it has since been accepted had no justification and led to the start of the troubles for no reason whatsoever which resulted in 30 years of bloody conflict for which unionism has yet to acknowledge any part in starting.
Risible stuff. I'm not a unionist, but if I was I'd not be converted by this revisionist tripe.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Unionism is a valid political position to hold and is not without some merit.

Unfortunately for some inexplicable reason it has injected sectarianism into its body politic and firmly rejects any call for its removal. It has no need for this sectarianism but clings to it like a limpet.

And it present in every strand of unionism from ignorant gougers like BtB to more sophisticated unionists like Castleray. They won't criticise the OO or the NAMA corruption or sectarian murder - anything that has dragged unionism into the gutter they will all defend or at best keep silent.
Unionism, like Republicanism, Conservatism , Socialism or any other political ideological 'ism' is inherently sectarian, as it embodies a political sect of like-minded individuals who share the same political values, principles and aspirations. No adherent of any political ideological grouping is non-sectarian.

Unionism is a valid, rational and legitimate political ideology, and beyond doubt, one of its core elements is fear. I've constantly confronted Unionists on this forum with the undeniable fact of how this island was undemocratically partitioned, and how NI, with its artificial and contrived majority is not a democratic country, and they have no answer, no argument.

Fear for the future is Unionism's prime concern, and holding onto the union for as long as possible is their way of dealing with the inevitability of Irish reunification and all of its connotations. I've directly challenged Unionists to look at the Irish situation from a Republican perspective, to gain a better understanding, but to no avail. They will not empathise with the traditional enemy. It's that simple.

Is it possible for Republicans to empathise with Unionists? Put yourself in their shoes. Because of a colonial project known as the Ulster plantation, they were placed on this island as means of colonising and anglicising Ulster, which was the most Gaelic and rebellious of the four provinces. No less than 12,000 were slaughtered during the rebellion of 1641. Large numbers were also executed during the 1798 rebellion, which was ironically organised and led by Presbyterians and Anglican Protestants. Presbyterians were also subjected to the penal laws along with RCs.

Enter post GFA 21st century NI after a 30 year PIRA campaign, and despite the union being stronger than it has ever been, this tribe continues to live with an unshakeable siege mentality, is still chronically insecure, worried for the future, resistant to change, and full of fear. Why? Because they view Irish reunification, not as the deserved liberation of Ireland, but placing them in a very vulnerable position where there is the potential for them to experience further persecution, and at the hands of aggrieved Nationalists who nurture resentment and a desire for retribution for what big house Unionism inflicted upon the CNR minority in the 6 county colony 1921-72.

Culture of fear? Your damned right they're afraid. Despite all conciliatory gestures and comforting words of persuasion and encouragement from SF, they simply do not and will not trust militant Republicanism. They stand alone, the world hates them, and they do not care, as they are looking out for themselves. What element of republicanism has the capacity to dispel their fears and take them over the precipice towards a united Ireland? In light of what the PIRA perpetrated upon them in the name of Irish freedom, it is not going to be Sinn Fein.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/248804-understanding-unionism.html
 

Mickeymac

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Another gem :-



Risible stuff. I'm not a unionist, but if I was I'd not be converted by this revisionist tripe.


Do you not accept that from the mid sixties unionist paramilitaries were bombing and murdering long before PIRA were even heard of?
 

Mickeymac

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Unionism, like Republicanism, Conservatism , Socialism or any other political ideological 'ism' is inherently sectarian, as it embodies a political sect of like-minded individuals who share the same political values, principles and aspirations. No adherent of any political ideological grouping is non-sectarian.

Unionism is a valid, rational and legitimate political ideology, and beyond doubt, one of its core elements is fear. I've constantly confronted Unionists on this forum with the undeniable fact of how this island was undemocratically partitioned, and how NI, with its artificial and contrived majority is not a democratic country, and they have no answer, no argument.

Fear for the future is Unionism's prime concern, and holding onto the union for as long as possible is their way of dealing with the inevitability of Irish reunification and all of its connotations. I've directly challenged Unionists to look at the Irish situation from a Republican perspective, to gain a better understanding, but to no avail. They will not empathise with the traditional enemy. It's that simple.

Is it possible for Republicans to empathise with Unionists? Put yourself in their shoes. Because of a colonial project known as the Ulster plantation, they were placed on this island as means of colonising and anglicising Ulster, which was the most Gaelic and rebellious of the four provinces. No less than 12,000 were slaughtered during the rebellion of 1641. Large numbers were also executed during the 1798 rebellion, which was ironically organised and led by Presbyterians and Anglican Protestants. Presbyterians were also subjected to the penal laws along with RCs.

Enter post GFA 21st century NI after a 30 year PIRA campaign, and despite the union being stronger than it has ever been, this tribe continues to live with an unshakeable siege mentality, is still chronically insecure, worried for the future, resistant to change, and full of fear. Why? Because they view Irish reunification, not as the deserved liberation of Ireland, but placing them in a very vulnerable position where there is the potential for them to experience further persecution, and at the hands of aggrieved Nationalists who nurture resentment and a desire for retribution for what big house Unionism inflicted upon the CNR minority in the 6 county colony 1921-72.

Culture of fear? Your damned right they're afraid. Despite all conciliatory gestures and comforting words of persuasion and encouragement from SF, they simply do not and will not trust militant Republicanism. They stand alone, the world hates them, and they do not care, as they are looking out for themselves. What element of republicanism has the capacity to dispel their fears and take them over the precipice towards a united Ireland? In light of what the PIRA perpetrated upon them in the name of Irish freedom, it is not going to be Sinn Fein.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/248804-understanding-unionism.html


Read that first time around IR, disappointed as usual with the unionist response, have they nothing to offer at all except have everything implemented without their input?
 

death or glory

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Do you not accept that from the mid sixties unionist paramilitaries were bombing and murdering long before PIRA were even heard of?
Mickeymouth,
did you never hear tell of the IRA and the border campaign?
Stick to defending shooting blacks in your country, you seem to know more about that.
 

vivabrigada

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Unionism, like Republicanism, Conservatism , Socialism or any other political ideological 'ism' is inherently sectarian, as it embodies a political sect of like-minded individuals who share the same political values, principles and aspirations. No adherent of any political ideological grouping is non-sectarian.

Unionism is a valid, rational and legitimate political ideology, and beyond doubt, one of its core elements is fear. I've constantly confronted Unionists on this forum with the undeniable fact of how this island was undemocratically partitioned, and how NI, with its artificial and contrived majority is not a democratic country, and they have no answer, no argument.

Fear for the future is Unionism's prime concern, and holding onto the union for as long as possible is their way of dealing with the inevitability of Irish reunification and all of its connotations. I've directly challenged Unionists to look at the Irish situation from a Republican perspective, to gain a better understanding, but to no avail. They will not empathise with the traditional enemy. It's that simple.

Is it possible for Republicans to empathise with Unionists? Put yourself in their shoes. Because of a colonial project known as the Ulster plantation, they were placed on this island as means of colonising and anglicising Ulster, which was the most Gaelic and rebellious of the four provinces. No less than 12,000 were slaughtered during the rebellion of 1641. Large numbers were also executed during the 1798 rebellion, which was ironically organised and led by Presbyterians and Anglican Protestants. Presbyterians were also subjected to the penal laws along with RCs.

Enter post GFA 21st century NI after a 30 year PIRA campaign, and despite the union being stronger than it has ever been, this tribe continues to live with an unshakeable siege mentality, is still chronically insecure, worried for the future, resistant to change, and full of fear. Why? Because they view Irish reunification, not as the deserved liberation of Ireland, but placing them in a very vulnerable position where there is the potential for them to experience further persecution, and at the hands of aggrieved Nationalists who nurture resentment and a desire for retribution for what big house Unionism inflicted upon the CNR minority in the 6 county colony 1921-72.

Culture of fear? Your damned right they're afraid. Despite all conciliatory gestures and comforting words of persuasion and encouragement from SF, they simply do not and will not trust militant Republicanism. They stand alone, the world hates them, and they do not care, as they are looking out for themselves. What element of republicanism has the capacity to dispel their fears and take them over the precipice towards a united Ireland? In light of what the PIRA perpetrated upon them in the name of Irish freedom, it is not going to be Sinn Fein.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/248804-understanding-unionism.html
Working class unionists/loyalists have continually been led to the top of the hill and then left there by their leaders when jail sentences started to be handed out.
Look at the fleg protest or Twaddell, hyped up then abandoned again until the next election, then the cycle repeats itself.
Educational underachiever is shamefully ignored so fear and ignorance thrives.
Who benefits? Unionist politicians.
 

Dimples 77

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Not 'strange' at all pal but entirely factual, what is strange however is why it is taking unionism so long to adapt to the peace accord that was signed almost 20 years ago and their satellite organisations like the OO really need to wise up, March where they are most welcome and let the rest of the people move on to a better future for all.

We have adapted Mort.

What are you complaining about now?
 

Dimples 77

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Unfortunately that same denial is a hindrance to everyone involved in any attempt to move forward, they even can't agree amongst themselves and identify who are victims of the conflict which mostly ended some 20 years ago.

Sure we can Mort.

PIRA members are not victims of the conflict.
 

CastleRay

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Far-right-wing Unionist in risible denial mode.
What am I denying that is a valid accusation against me by Leveller? Sectarianism? Not criticising the OO or NAMA investigation? I don't defend Unionism. As you know I don't consider myself a Unionist. In Northern Ireland the Unionists' outlook and actions are hard for me to recognise as Unionism.
 

michael-mcivor

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Liking the big mouth preachers of Unionism has ended when the TUV went their own road to no-where and a X UUP member took over the DUP because the old hands Ran from leading their own party- Sinn Fein leaders have been involved in the movement for over 40 years- the leaders of political Unionism are new to their own party's- poor Nesbitt has just left the newsroom and took over a political party- any wonder they are on the road to no-where-
 

NMunsterman

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What am I denying that is a valid accusation against me by Leveller? Sectarianism? Not criticising the OO or NAMA investigation? I don't defend Unionism. As you know I don't consider myself a Unionist. In Northern Ireland the Unionists' outlook and actions are hard for me to recognise as Unionism.
You have described yourself as a Non-Unionist Unionist, if I recall correctly - whatever that actually means.

What does a "Non-Unionist Unionist " mean in practice ?
 

Dimples 77

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Liking the big mouth preachers of Unionism has ended when the TUV went their own road to no-where and a X UUP member took over the DUP because the old hands Ran from leading their own party- Sinn Fein leaders have been involved in the movement for over 40 years- the leaders of political Unionism are new to their own party's- poor Nesbitt has just left the newsroom and took over a political party- any wonder they are on the road to no-where-


Is that why SF has failed so miserably?

The same tired old faces trotting out the same old rubbish for 40 years?
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Working class unionists/loyalists have continually been led to the top of the hill and then left there by their leaders when jail sentences started to be handed out.
Look at the fleg protest or Twaddell, hyped up then abandoned again until the next election, then the cycle repeats itself.
Educational underachiever is shamefully ignored so fear and ignorance thrives.
Who benefits? Unionist politicians.
The only working class Unionists/Loyalists to break away from the big house unionist elite, criticise its misdemeanours (discrimination), and embrace left-wing Socialist politics were the likes of Spence and Ervine of the PUP. But because they were inextricably involved with and linked to the UVF, the PUP haven't fared too well electorally.

And that's the sad part. At least working class Republicans were offered Socialist politics by SF (the PIRAs raison d'etre was to militarily achieve a 32 county Democratic Socialist republic as outlined in the Green Book). Loyalists have traditionally been goaded and manipulated by Unionist politicians, then whenever they got involved in Loyalist paramilitary organisations and committed acts of violence, the same Unionist politicians distanced themselves and denounced them. Duplicity. Hypocrisy.

The Unionist/Loyalist working class is notoriously educationally disadvantaged, in the sense that there is a culture of antipathy towards higher education within that class, and the only Unionist to highlight this problem of educational dysfunctionality was Dawn Purvis formerly of the PUP. Ulster Unionist and DUP politicians don't seem to give a f***, even though PUL educational underachievement is not a positive for the union.
 

Dimples 77

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The only working class Unionists/Loyalists to break away from the big house unionist elite, criticise its misdemeanours (discrimination), and embrace left-wing Socialist politics were the likes of Spence and Ervine of the PUP. But because they were inextricably involved with and linked to the UVF, the PUP haven't fared too well electorally.

And that's the sad part. At least working class Republicans were offered Socialist politics by SF (the PIRAs raison d'etre was to militarily achieve a 32 county Democratic Socialist republic as outlined in the Green Book). Loyalists have traditionally been goaded and manipulated by Unionist politicians, then whenever they got involved in Loyalist paramilitary organisations and committed acts of violence, the same Unionist politicians distanced themselves and denounced them. Duplicity. Hypocrisy.

The Unionist/Loyalist working class is notoriously educationally disadvantaged, in the sense that there is a culture of antipathy towards higher education within that class, and the only Unionist to highlight this problem of educational dysfunctionality was Dawn Purvis formerly of the PUP. Ulster Unionist and DUP politicians don't seem to give a f***, even though PUL educational underachievement is not a positive for the union.


What would you like the UUP and DUP to do about this?

If there is "a culture of antipathy towards higher education within that class" what do you expect the UUP and DUP to do?

I came from the unionist working class (not loyalist) and I ended up going to university, as did my siblings. The opportunity was there and our parents encouraged us to take it. As did many other parents in our community.

If the loyalist wasters have this attitude of antipathy then f*** them, as you put it. It's their decision to wallow in whatever they are happy to wallow in. The opportunities are there for them. Why should unionists care if they are happy to wallow as an underclass?
 

Irish-Rationalist

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What am I denying that is a valid accusation against me by Leveller? Sectarianism? Not criticising the OO or NAMA investigation? I don't defend Unionism. As you know I don't consider myself a Unionist. In Northern Ireland the Unionists' outlook and actions are hard for me to recognise as Unionism.
You come across as an old school, right-wing, Tory-Thatcherite, Ulster Unionist. In fact, far right on the economic front as an exponent of laissez faire capitalism. You can deny being a unionist, but your posting history suggests otherwise and reveals someone who is very pro-union indeed, and diametrically opposed to Irish nationalism. Now you can place yourself inside or outside of any political ideological category, and in what you may think is a clever strategy to avoid being pigeon-holed and to avoid criticism, but your forum commentary speaks for itself.
 

Mickeymac

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Mickeymouth,
did you never hear tell of the IRA and the border campaign?
Stick to defending shooting blacks in your country, you seem to know more about that.

You agree not to post any material which:

• Is defamatory, invasive of privacy, abusive, harassing, threatening, profane, violent, sexually explicit, or which otherwise violates the rights of others and off topic



Not my rules DOG, why don't you start a thread on the NI Forum about your concerns re law and order in the United States?
 

Novos

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How very positive of you to copy the OP...........yet conveniently left out your thoughts for fear of sense and sensibility upsetting that wee small world you live in.......sad really.
Sad is a foreign national posting on an Irish site. Have you no friends you could talk to instead of posting nonsense on here?
Did you ever find those census experts yet who said Nationalist would be in a majority by 2020?
 


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