Isn't it time that we had a National ID Card

david

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geraghd

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FG could send them a big box of hope, perhaps?
Oh that would be a great idea. And a membership card for FG of course.
 

geraghd

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Yes, when we have influence in govt it most certainly will.
 

flakie

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ryano said:
The State could send a card to everyone on their birthday on behalf of everyone else in the country, signed by the President or something. It'd cost a fortune and have no appreciable effect, but it'd be nice.
Tell me it will keep the scumbags off the streets and I'll vote for it.
Nothing will sort out the thuggery in this country until the gards get their fingers from out of their arses, the government cuts their own salaries and starts spending on gards, social programs and healthcare, and laws are actually enforced.

ID cards will simply be another boom for the black market.

Counterfeit "fail-safe" national ID anyone?
 

borderlinegenius

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geraghd said:
Yes, when we have influence in govt it most certainly will.
I was more thinking when you're in the great elephant graveyard in the sky, sipping Pimms with Cumman na Gael.
 

pluralist

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ID cards are just a means of governments expanding their powers and keeping tabs on free citizens. I am opposed to them.
 

ryano

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You are Michael McDowell's wet dream.
I fervently hope not, although for obvious reasons I can't be certain.

Perhaps I need to employ a <sarcasm> tag. My point was that Conor's national birthday card scheme would do as much to combat crime as a national identity card scheme. It would probably be cheaper too.
 

borderlinegenius

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ryano said:
Perhaps I need to employ a <sarcasm> tag. My point was that Conor's national birthday card scheme would do as much to combat crime as a national identity card scheme. It would probably be cheaper too.
My mistake. I mistook you for a cretin.

(In fairness, it is hard to tell around here; I've come to assume the worst)
 

Paraic

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borderlinegenius said:
FG could send them a big box of hope, perhaps?
It's no joking matter. Did you know that, on average, someone's birthday is forgotten every 45 minutes?



Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny, launching the party's campaign for missed birthday awareness.

Paraic
 

Liberty-101

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Why not just print a barcode on our skin and put a star on us if were jewish?

This would cost a fortune and be a waste of time, it's totally unessicary.
 

hiker

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I don't agree with compulory national I.D. cards, but I would support compulsory I.D. for purchasing alchohol and cigarettes. Also I think there could be a way of tying barcodes on alcohol containers to place of purchase. If underage drinkers are caught in possesion of alcohol then the drink can be traced back to the place of purchase and a fine can be charged on the seller. If the drink was bought by an overage person and given to an underage person, a fine would be charged on the buyer. A compulory I.D. card could enable this to happen.
 

KingKane

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kingkane
hiker said:
I don't agree with compulory national I.D. cards, but I would support compulsory I.D. for purchasing alchohol and cigarettes. Also I think there could be a way of tying barcodes on alcohol containers to place of purchase. If underage drinkers are caught in possesion of alcohol then the drink can be traced back to the place of purchase and a fine can be charged on the seller. If the drink was bought by an overage person and given to an underage person, a fine would be charged on the buyer. A compulory I.D. card could enable this to happen.
I agree with this idea of ID for alcohol and ciggies. I would also ask that we require people to do a drinking license course to be educated about the effects of alcohold and ciggies, 1/2 or half a day in school might be enough. Also, we could link the drinking license of parents to drinking of their underage offspring. If your 15 year old get nicked drinking cider at some bonfire you lose your drinking rights for 3/6 months. Might make some parents pay more attention to what their kids are up to.

Of course, we could extend it to cover other areas for example if we were to legalise prostitution!
 

Trojanhorse

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KingKane said:
If your 15 year old get nicked drinking cider at some bonfire you lose your drinking rights for 3/6 months. Might make some parents pay more attention to what their kids are up to.

Is that not a bit police state like??
and besides what if your parents don't drink then that would be the purpose totally defeated?
 

madboggar

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Well do not say i told you so

Well it looks like McDowell is finally doing the right thing and sorting out the ID Cards. I think that this will see a great change in Ireland.

The Irish Independent reports that the government is considering the conversion of the social welfare services card into a national identity card that could contain fingerprints, iris scans, or facial outlines. The introduction of ID cards in Ireland is regarded as inevitable if Britain proceeds with its plan to launch such cards. Justice Minister Michael McDowell acknowledged that the Irish government would have to respond to British actions on the issue because of implications for the common travel area.
 

padraig

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Re: Well do not say i told you so

madboggar said:
Well it looks like McDowell is finally doing the right thing and sorting out the ID Cards. I think that this will see a great change in Ireland.

The Irish Independent reports that the government is considering the conversion of the social welfare services card into a national identity card that could contain fingerprints, iris scans, or facial outlines. The introduction of ID cards in Ireland is regarded as inevitable if Britain proceeds with its plan to launch such cards. Justice Minister Michael McDowell acknowledged that the Irish government would have to respond to British actions on the issue because of implications for the common travel area.
What common travel area ?, anyone travelling between Britain and Ireland requires identification such as a passport. So that is a very lame excuse for the introduction of ID cards.
 

david

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So what do you think is the general consensus around the country? The few people I've spoken to are often instinctively against ID cards but, like speeding and similar things, are in favour of restricting other people.

I'm wavering between the fact that I don't think they're necessary but, if we must have them, we need transparency throughout the system so everyone feels comfortable with how and where the information is held and how it is used. Do you think we'll have transparency? Probably not.

OK, most of the info. is already on dozens of databases but the technological side - the iris/fingerprint etc data - is probably where people feel that their liberty is threatened.

Will it help track down criminals? Will we see burglars having their fingerprints lasered off? Could I complain about something like persistent littering and have the culprit apprehended? Will I ever find out who ran over my cat?
 

hivemind

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I don't particulary have a problem with compulsory ID cards as such. I have a problem with misuse of such cards and I think they will be misused unless there is a system put in place at the same time that dictates under what circumstances it is ok to demand a card and what can be done with the information.

There should be guidelines for when it is ok for anyone to ask to see your card. Ticket inspectors on public transport, bouncers in nightclubs and cashiers in off licences shouldn't be able to demand to see your card. If they need to determine your age then any of the current crop of ID cards that do that should be sufficient. If they want to know if you are old enough to be permitted to do something all they need is a photograph and a date of birth, they don't need to know all the other information that will amost certainly be on any national ID card. It should be possible to prosecute companies that discriminate against people that won't show their ID cards.

Every time a law enforcement official asks to see an ID card they should have to record the date, time and reason they did this. They shouldn't be able to simply stop someone and ask them for an ID check for no reason or because they "didn't like the look of you". If there is a bombscare I would consider it fine to check everyone in a certain area, or a random 10% of people in a certain area. If there are complaints about windows being broken I'd consider it ok to ID check a bunch of kids hanging around on a street corner. They shouldn't be able to ID check kids just because they don't like seeing kids hanging around even though there's been no complaint, they shouldn't be able to randomly stop people in the street if there is no reason for heightened security.

Most importantly every time a law enforcement person looks you up in the all encompassing database I have no doubt will be attached to this ID there should be a paper trail. You should be able to use FOI to check if someone is looking you up. If they do look you up they should have a good reason, one they can defend in court if necessary. It should be made crystal clear that it is illegal for a gardai to look you up in the database and go rooting around for things to use against you because of a personal bias. If you give some lip to a garda at a checkpoint but otherwise do nothing wrong they should never be able to look you up and find out where you live, if you've got any parking tickets, whether you've got a TV licence, paid your bin tax, etc.

Like I said, ID cards are fine so long as they can't be abused. Unfortunately I don't trust this government to put in the safeguards I think are required. They might want to, I just don't think they are capable.
 


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