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Israel Folau


owedtojoy

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Why?

Rugby Australia and Qantas both publicly espouse particular doctrinal beliefs, beliefs that are not universally shared - why are they entitled to have public beliefs? What has gay marriage got to do with rugby administration or flying planes?

Not only have Rugby Australia and Qantas promoted their beliefs, but they seek to censor and punish someone who disagrees with their beliefs.
Please explain why a code that pledges to "Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability" is now suddenly a second class belief that must give way before one man's religious prejudice?

Folau is demanding an "equal" treatment for his religious prejudice that he will not allow to gay people.
 


Northsideman

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Source please? Preferably a quote from someone who actually holds these two entirely contradictory opinions.

My own view is that it is extremely dangerous to allow special rights to any religious group, including Christians, partly because that will inevitably lead to fundamentalist Muslims requiring the same special rights for their own religious views about issues like separation of men and women in everyday life or the necessity for women to be covered from the male gaze.
How about British Airways, ok to ware Muslims symbols but not a crucifix. That if I recall correctly went all the way to the European courts before it was settled. There are numerous examples if you want to look.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Please explain why a code that pledges to "Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability" is now suddenly a second class belief that must give way before one man's religious prejudice?

Folau is demanding an "equal" treatment for his religious prejudice that he will not allow to gay people.
Why does anyone have to be second class?

Folau has not sought that anyone be censored, but he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, and to express that opinion.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Because RA and Qantas are promoting beliefs about equality.
Why?

What on earth has that to do with their competencies? Why would anyone think that a sports administration body, and a transport company, have important insights into how society should be ordered?
 

Hillmanhunter1

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They pay his focking salary. On what planet is his behaviour none of their business.

Have you a job?
OK, they pay his salary, but paying a salary does not mean you own a person - that's slavery you're thinking of.

And why does a games administration body and a transport company think that it is part of their remit to advocate a particular social doctrine?
 

petaljam

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Why?

What on earth has that to do with their competencies? Why would anyone think that a sports administration body, and a transport company, have important insights into how society should be ordered?
Oh I don't have any illusions that RA care about how society is ordered, they mostly want to make sure their employees don't alienate potential fans by insulting them or their family.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Why does anyone have to be second class?

Folau has not sought that anyone be censored, but he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, and to express that opinion.
Okay. If his opinion was that Jews were generally money grabbing schemers and the Irish were all alcoholic wife-beaters you'd be grand with him expressing that on his social media profiles where young people, some of Irish descent, follow him because of his status in sport?

I suspect that many Australians of Irish origin would strongly disagree with you.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Oh I don't have any illusions that RA care about how society is ordered, they mostly want to make sure their employees don't alienate potential fans by insulting them or their family.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.


Okay. If his opinion was that Jews were generally money grabbing schemers and the Irish were all alcoholic wife-beaters you'd be grand with him expressing that on his social media profiles where young people, some of Irish origin, follow him because of his status in sport?
So offending homosexuals is not OK, but offending and alienating people who hold religious beliefs is fine.

As for the second part of your post, deal with the facts of this case and the arguments made, please don't resort to straw man tactics.
 

petaljam

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So offending homosexuals is not OK, but offending and alienating people who hold religious beliefs is fine.

As for the second part of your post, deal with the facts of this case and the arguments made, please don't resort to straw man tactics.
Oh the irony.

I asked a question: the word IF and the question mark at the end are clues to that. It's not a straw man. Look up the definition if you need to.

Or alternatively just look at your claim here about offending religious people.... :rolleyes:
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Oh the irony.

I asked a question: the word IF and the question mark at the end are clues to that. It's not a straw man. Look up the definition if you need to.

Or alternatively just look at your claim here about offending religious people.... :rolleyes:
As I suggested, lets stick to the facts and arguments germane to the Folau case and not some exaggerated and fake scenario.

Have you any answer to the question of why Qantas, a transport company, thinks that part of it's remit includes supporting gay marriage? Could it have anything to do with this:

 

Buchaill Dana

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OK, they pay his salary, but paying a salary does not mean you own a person - that's slavery you're thinking of.

And why does a games administration body and a transport company think that it is part of their remit to advocate a particular social doctrine?
Within their sport they are entirely responsible for the culture and perfectly rnritled, no, expected, to mould it.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Within their sport they are entirely responsible for the culture and perfectly rnritled, no, expected, to mould it.
You're making stuff up now.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Im really not.

He asks again, have you a job.
What has that got to do with Israel Folau?

You've lost the substantive argument, and now you are floundering around for material for an ad hominen attack.
 

owedtojoy

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Why does anyone have to be second class?

Folau has not sought that anyone be censored, but he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, and to express that opinion.
Consigning certain players to hell, based on religious prejudice, is not "an opinion".

It is a judgement, a highly negative one, and a hurtful one to many people.

Such a judgement violates the standard of treating everyone equally, regardless of sexual orientation, as Folau pledged in signing off on a Code of Conduct. It comes under Inappropriate Use of Social Media, which Folau was advised to use positively.

FFS, you know this, and the Hearing probably came to the same conclusion.

A court is highly unlikely to allow a "religious" exception to following a code of conduct that is common is many professions.
 

riven

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Oct 4, 2007
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It is not a religious issue.

Folau have quite clearly painted himself outside his faith to make his argument.
 

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