Israel Folau

Hillmanhunter1

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Please explain why a code that pledges to "Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability" is now suddenly a second class belief that must give way before one man's religious prejudice?

Folau is demanding an "equal" treatment for his religious prejudice that he will not allow to gay people.
Why does anyone have to be second class?

Folau has not sought that anyone be censored, but he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, and to express that opinion.
 


Hillmanhunter1

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Because RA and Qantas are promoting beliefs about equality.
Why?

What on earth has that to do with their competencies? Why would anyone think that a sports administration body, and a transport company, have important insights into how society should be ordered?
 

Buchaill Dana

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Why?

What on earth has that to do with their competencies? Why would anyone think that a sports administration body, and a transport company, have important insights into how society should be ordered?
Just. Stop.
 

Buchaill Dana

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Why does anyone have to be second class?

Folau has not sought that anyone be censored, but he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, and to express that opinion.
And he did.
 

Buchaill Dana

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No answer, because the answer is that it's none of their business.
They pay his focking salary. On what planet is his behaviour none of their business.

Have you a job?
 

Hillmanhunter1

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They pay his focking salary. On what planet is his behaviour none of their business.

Have you a job?
OK, they pay his salary, but paying a salary does not mean you own a person - that's slavery you're thinking of.

And why does a games administration body and a transport company think that it is part of their remit to advocate a particular social doctrine?
 

petaljam

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Why?

What on earth has that to do with their competencies? Why would anyone think that a sports administration body, and a transport company, have important insights into how society should be ordered?
Oh I don't have any illusions that RA care about how society is ordered, they mostly want to make sure their employees don't alienate potential fans by insulting them or their family.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Why does anyone have to be second class?

Folau has not sought that anyone be censored, but he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, and to express that opinion.
Okay. If his opinion was that Jews were generally money grabbing schemers and the Irish were all alcoholic wife-beaters you'd be grand with him expressing that on his social media profiles where young people, some of Irish descent, follow him because of his status in sport?

I suspect that many Australians of Irish origin would strongly disagree with you.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Oh I don't have any illusions that RA care about how society is ordered, they mostly want to make sure their employees don't alienate potential fans by insulting them or their family.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.


Okay. If his opinion was that Jews were generally money grabbing schemers and the Irish were all alcoholic wife-beaters you'd be grand with him expressing that on his social media profiles where young people, some of Irish origin, follow him because of his status in sport?
So offending homosexuals is not OK, but offending and alienating people who hold religious beliefs is fine.

As for the second part of your post, deal with the facts of this case and the arguments made, please don't resort to straw man tactics.
 

petaljam

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So offending homosexuals is not OK, but offending and alienating people who hold religious beliefs is fine.

As for the second part of your post, deal with the facts of this case and the arguments made, please don't resort to straw man tactics.
Oh the irony.

I asked a question: the word IF and the question mark at the end are clues to that. It's not a straw man. Look up the definition if you need to.

Or alternatively just look at your claim here about offending religious people.... :rolleyes:
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Oh the irony.

I asked a question: the word IF and the question mark at the end are clues to that. It's not a straw man. Look up the definition if you need to.

Or alternatively just look at your claim here about offending religious people.... :rolleyes:
As I suggested, lets stick to the facts and arguments germane to the Folau case and not some exaggerated and fake scenario.

Have you any answer to the question of why Qantas, a transport company, thinks that part of it's remit includes supporting gay marriage? Could it have anything to do with this:

 

Buchaill Dana

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OK, they pay his salary, but paying a salary does not mean you own a person - that's slavery you're thinking of.

And why does a games administration body and a transport company think that it is part of their remit to advocate a particular social doctrine?
Within their sport they are entirely responsible for the culture and perfectly rnritled, no, expected, to mould it.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Within their sport they are entirely responsible for the culture and perfectly rnritled, no, expected, to mould it.
You're making stuff up now.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Im really not.

He asks again, have you a job.
What has that got to do with Israel Folau?

You've lost the substantive argument, and now you are floundering around for material for an ad hominen attack.
 

Buchaill Dana

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What has that got to do with Israel Folau?

You've lost the substantive argument, and now you are floundering around for material for an ad hominen attack.
Its not.

You just dont seem to really get how work, or sport, well, works.
 

owedtojoy

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Why does anyone have to be second class?

Folau has not sought that anyone be censored, but he is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, and to express that opinion.
Consigning certain players to hell, based on religious prejudice, is not "an opinion".

It is a judgement, a highly negative one, and a hurtful one to many people.

Such a judgement violates the standard of treating everyone equally, regardless of sexual orientation, as Folau pledged in signing off on a Code of Conduct. It comes under Inappropriate Use of Social Media, which Folau was advised to use positively.

FFS, you know this, and the Hearing probably came to the same conclusion.

A court is highly unlikely to allow a "religious" exception to following a code of conduct that is common is many professions.
 

riven

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It is not a religious issue.

Folau have quite clearly painted himself outside his faith to make his argument.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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It is not a religious issue.

Folau have quite clearly painted himself outside his faith to make his argument.
John 11:35.

Take a few minutes to learn the tenets of his faith and you will see that his Instagram post was entirely within those tenets:

"What God has defined as sin in the Bible remains sin. Being our Creator, His definitions of sin are objective reality and could not be subjectively altered by any human being. His definitions of sin affect equally both heterosexuals and those that have homosexual conduct. The prohibition for committing the sin of adultery found in the Decalogue and addressed towards heterosexuals is to be observed with the same force and carefulness as the prohibition for committing the sin of having same sex-relationships found in the Levitical Code and addressed to those who are inclined towards such acts. God’s general definition for the consequences of sin is clear: “The wages of sin is death …” (Romans 6:23). There is no worse consequence than spiritual death, which breaks relationship with God and does not allow one to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus himself upheld the gravity of breaking God’s sovereign characterization of what is sin and pointed out that at the end of time “The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:40-42)."

This notion that Folau is flying solo is false - he is expressing the views of a church with 70m members, and shared by a vastly larger number of the adherents to the Abrahamic faiths.

World AG Fellowship | Bylaws, Membership & Position Papers
 

AyaanMyHero

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Oh I don't have any illusions that RA care about how society is ordered, they mostly want to make sure their employees don't alienate potential fans by insulting them or their family.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Of course, they don't want to alienate fans or players. That's why they should just stay silent on referenda and the like. If they do that then they do not risk narrowing their market. A diverse robust market is what you want in any business. A voluntary action to publically support one or other side of a refendum question is not so reasonable. Do you see the point that it is simply not in their own self interest ?
 


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