Israel Folau



owedtojoy

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Folau affair: the four sides of the square of foolishness

Good article - everyone has contributed something to this mess.
Read it, I thought is was more of the same old boring shyte served up for people who can't face gay equality.

If Folau's only texted what our grandparents believed that does not make it ok. In out gandfathers' time, gay people led lives of quiet desperation that often led to depression, suicide, or (if they were caught) jail. The story of Alan Turing, who did as much to win the Second World War as Montgomery, is a case in point.

Whoever wrote that article does not know the young people playing rugby today. A minority of them are struggling with their sexuality, and branding them as dammed belongs with the brutish, primitive morality of the Old Testament.
 

Peter72

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Read it, I thought is was more of the same old boring shyte served up for people who can't face gay equality.

If Folau's only texted what our grandparents believed that does not make it ok. In out gandfathers' time, gay people led lives of quiet desperation that often led to depression, suicide, or (if they were caught) jail. The story of Alan Turing, who did as much to win the Second World War as Montgomery, is a case in point.

Whoever wrote that article does not know the young people playing rugby today. A minority of them are struggling with their sexuality, and branding them as dammed belongs with the brutish, primitive morality of the Old Testament.
How are gays not equal?

They are not immune from criticism of their lifestyle choice and the consequences thereof.
 

SuirView

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How are gays not equal?

They are not immune from criticism of their lifestyle choice and the consequences thereof.
Why should "gays" be criticised?
I thought we were gone from this?
 

stanley

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So critiques should be crushed because Gay???

Wow.

Fascism liberal style, right there.
SV criticises everyone and everything, he is the eternal attention seeking gobshlte who knows nothing about nothing, in truth - a bore.
 

Apple in Eden

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Read it, I thought is was more of the same old boring shyte served up for people who can't face gay equality.

If Folau's only texted what our grandparents believed that does not make it ok. In out gandfathers' time, gay people led lives of quiet desperation that often led to depression, suicide, or (if they were caught) jail. The story of Alan Turing, who did as much to win the Second World War as Montgomery, is a case in point.

Whoever wrote that article does not know the young people playing rugby today. A minority of them are struggling with their sexuality, and branding them as dammed belongs with the brutish, primitive morality of the Old Testament.
I don't agree with what he believes but the article is an attempt to attach some perspective to the whole affair. It is not solely for people who as you say cant face gay equality but is an attempt to frame how the Gay and Hetro worlds should interact or peacefully co-exist moving forward. In that sense it moves beyond your tag of boring old Shyte.
 

AyaanMyHero

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You mis-read my post - I disagree with Folau, but defend his right to free speech.

I have no particular view on the propriety or otherwise of Qantas' support for gay marriage per se (though I do think that Qantas should stick to flying airplanes and RA to administering games).

I do however think it is legitimate to enquire, as it would in any other circumstances, how the causes supported by the CEO came to be also supported by the company.
Stumbled across this., It explains the process that led to Qantas pledging support to the LGBT cause.

 

omgsquared

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You can have all the gay equality legislation that you want. You can bring out laws ensuring that there is no discrimination against gays. You can even have people saying that 'marriage" between people of the same sex is so cool and normal. But deep down people know that it is not normal and while it may be natural for people with homosexual tendencies it is not normal.. So I will not discriminate aginst gays , I will even defend a gay person rights to have such a life style and would intervene if I saw a homosexual person being discriminated against..
What is happening of course is Cahildren in schools , society in general through the media are being conditioned to consider that that homosexuality is the norm , that there is no differene between a marriage between Paul and Tom and John and Mary , and it so much blatant BS.
Hetrosexual relations are normal. This is a fact not a homophobic statement.. Israel Folou had a right to say what he said, and the sponsors have used their power to silence him. He should then have the right to challenge their decision and in should be done in a way that is objective and avoids outrage and the usual PC homophobic vlaims BS. I think Isreal Folou is an over christianed fundamentalist //
 

riven

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Israel Folou had a right to say what he said
Really? So why then did Folau feel that he had to put out a religious passage, stating that this was his basis, except that said text did not say what he stated?

Given the the text does not agree with Folau's statement, and Folau needs a basis by his own admission, it does leave poor Izzy without a valid argument.
 
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Finbar10

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Really? So why then did folau feel that he had to put out religious stating that this was his basis, except that siad txt did not say what he stated?

Given the the text does not agree with folaus statement, and folau needs a basis, it does leave poor Izzy without a valid argument.
Hmmm. You seem to have the definitive inside line on an oft-times self-contradictory book. But can you really definitively say that Folau's take on that Corinthian's passage is wrong? I see that in an earlier post you labelled him a liar (strong stuff) for a wrong interpretation of this passage. A very black-and-white statement for a book in which many topics are so grey and open to interpretation.
 

owedtojoy

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Australia have played 2 games in this years (truncated) Rugby Championship.

After a heavy away defeat to South Africa, they bounced back with a home win over Argentina on Saturday in a scrappy game.

The main talking point for Australia is the return to form of outhalf Christian Lealiifano after a struggle with leukemia.

Australian rugby has had bigger problems than Israel Folau, as it was in a prolonged losing streak. The next two games with the All Blacks will be the measure of their progress. On the face of the, the Folau affair in in the past as far as the international team is concerned.
 

riven

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But can you really definitively say that Folau's take on that Corinthian's passage is wrong?
Yes. He pointed to a specific passage in Cointhians 6. I quoted it elsewhere and pointed out the vagueness in the statement it made. Even under the most hateful interpretation, it does not say what Folau says it does.

Further, I also pointed out some of the contradictions you highlight, in Corinthians. And also some of the absurd rules. It is not a strong reference.
 

Finbar10

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Yes. He pointed to a specific passage in Cointhians 6. I quoted it elsewhere and pointed out the vagueness in the statement it made. Even under the most hateful interpretation, it does not say what Folau says it does.

Further, I also pointed out some of the contradictions you highlight, in Corinthians. And also some of the absurd rules. It is not a strong reference.
Here's the passage:
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
If you take these words on their own terms, Folau's interpretation doesn't seem too outlandish to me. Sure, later on the passage talks about forgiveness (if people stop being in these categories and repent, then sure it seems to say the kingdom of God is still possible), but without change of course then that loss seems to be the implication? And if one doesn't inherit the kingdom of God, well, isn't the alternative destination hell in the biblical worldview?

Personally, sending someone to burn eternally in hellfire doesn't seem a very benign thing to do for a benign God (bit of an oxymoron). I'm not actually arguing for the veracity of such passages. I'm just saying that Folau's viewpoint can't be a surprising or illogical interpretation given what's in the bible.
 

riven

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The kingdom of God includes both purgatory and hell or not, depending on which reference. But clearly hell is not guaranteed. Indeed religious readings focused on the sin of lied and adultery rather than same sex. There are several translations for the word perceived to be homosexuality.

Further the kingdom of God refers to the fuedal style kingship system and not to actual places i.e. heaven.

But even if you ignore these theological items and go towards the hateful and vengeful route, folau is judging. Yet Corinthians explicitly forbids him from judging, and to await gods judgement.

So it is forbidden for him to say. It is completely sinful for him to do so, and only shows him to be hateful and sinful.

This is at odds with Corinthians later, as clearly there are many passages showing forgiveness. Yet folau states that this is somehow off the table if not done in this life. So those people are excluded from the final judgement.

If one is hateful and a biggoted dinner, then folau can make sense.
 

Finbar10

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The kingdom of God includes both purgatory and hell or not, depending on which reference. But clearly hell is not guaranteed. Indeed religious readings focused on the sin of lied and adultery rather than same sex. There are several translations for the word perceived to be homosexuality.
Sure, there is possible uncertainty about the translation as homosexuality in the passage. That's the usual translation though.

Further the kingdom of God refers to the fuedal style kingship system and not to actual places i.e. heaven.
What about Jesus saying "my kingdom is not of this world" or it says in Luke that the "kingdom of God is within you". It's not a very clear concept I think. Your take on kingdom of God isn't really more convincing than Folau's.

But even if you ignore these theological items and go towards the hateful and vengeful route, folau is judging. Yet Corinthians explicitly forbids him from judging, and to await gods judgement.

So it is forbidden for him to say. It is completely sinful for him to do so, and only shows him to be hateful and sinful.

This is at odds with Corinthians later, as clearly there are many passages showing forgiveness. Yet folau states that this is somehow off the table if not done in this life. So those people are excluded from the final judgement.

If one is hateful and a biggoted dinner, then folau can make sense.
Well, that's your interpretation of his motives. He is quoting the words of Paul. Going by your logic, wasn't Paul also being hateful by saying that sinners (unrepentant ones anyway) could not be not part of the kingdom?

The Catholic church had similar dogma (unrepented mortal sin at death meant inevitable hell; purgatory was for less serious venal sins), though perhaps things have gotten more wishy-washy these days (that used to be the old fire-and-brimstone stance).

Not that I'm saying the above is true; just that as well as forgiveness, the love of God etc. in the bible, there's a lot about sinners burning in hell too in the bible! :)
 
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