Israel Folau

Emily Davison

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Others peoples beliefs do not upset me in any way , I am an atheist so he has probably condemned me to 'hell' as well but that is free speech and his right to do so.
Do you put any limits on free speech?
 


Betson

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Do you put any limits on free speech?
Not really outside of the norms of clear libel and threatening or inciting violence etc but after that I think thought and speech should be free to express no matter how little sense they make to others.

If you don't like the activities of straight people , gay people , non religious people etc etc and think are all condemned to some kind of 'hell' then you should the right to think that and say that.
 

Emily Davison

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Not really outside of the norms of clear libel and threatening or inciting violence etc but after that I think thought and speech should be free to express no matter how little sense they make to others.

If you don't like the activities of straight people , gay people , non religious people etc etc and think are all condemned to some kind of 'hell' then you should the right to think that and say that.
Do you think it's a hateful thing to say that people deserved to die because of the wrath of God?

I actually think that there might be a court case in this.
 

Betson

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Do you think it's a hateful thing to say that people deserved to die because of the wrath of God?

I actually think that there might be a court case in this.
It certainly not a nice thing to say but that is only his opinion , it is not as if he has actually teamed up with 'god' to do the punishing of these people. That would probably be stepping over the line alright.
 

Betson

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While I don't agree with what he says from a rugby prospective I would have no issue with him playing for the team I support.
 

Clanrickard

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While I don't agree with what he says from a rugby prospective I would have no issue with him playing for the team I support.
That's what I don't get. Rugby Australia have basicly said if you hold certain views that don't chime with the pc zeitgeist keep schtum or you can't play for us. They had no problem with players supporting gay marriage or other right on causes. The job of a rugby player is to play rugby not be a pc mouthpiece. Kanye West says some crazy stuff but his record label aren't dropping him. People don't stop listening to him.
 

Emily Davison

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While I don't agree with what he says from a rugby prospective I would have no issue with him playing for the team I support.
I think anyone who thinks it's ok to say people have lost their homes and been killed because of Australian laws is not a fit person to be on a national team. Some have said the following about his comments:

- reprhensible
- provacative
- silly comments
- he's brainwashed
- appallingly insensitive
- dangerous and deranged
- not in a good mental state

Have you an opinon on why people would say that about him?
 
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Clanrickard

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I think anyone who thinks it's ok to say people have lost their homes and been killed because of Australian laws is not a fit person to be on a national team. Some have said the following about his comments:

- reprensible
- provacative
- silly comments
- he's brainwashed
- appallingly insensitive
- dangerous and deranged
- not in a good mental state

Have you an opinon on why people would say that about him?
Duh..........because they don't like what he says. So what? They are entitled to condemn him as he is entitled to say these things.
 

Betson

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I think anyone who thinks it's ok to say people have lost their homes and been killed because of Australian laws is not a fit person to be on a national team. Some have said the following about his comments:

- reprensible
- provacative
- silly comments
- he's brainwashed
- appallingly insensitive
- dangerous and deranged
- not in a good mental state

Have you an opinon on why people would say that about him?

I suspect they are saying those things because they don't agree with his comments, as is their right. There is probably also those who agree with what he said.
 

CatullusV

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It certainly not a nice thing to say but that is only his opinion , it is not as if he has actually teamed up with 'god' to do the punishing of these people. That would probably be stepping over the line alright.
The problem is not that it is his opinion. It is also potentially incitement. At the very least he is fingering advocates for SSM as distal causes of current tragedies.
 

Golah veNekhar

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I think anyone who thinks it's ok to say people have lost their homes and been killed because of Australian laws is not a fit person to be on a national team. Some have said the following about his comments:

- reprhensible
- provacative
- silly comments
- he's brainwashed
- appallingly insensitive
- dangerous and deranged
- not in a good mental state

Have you an opinon on why people would say that about him?
Are you sure that are the descendant of all the Witchfinders they failed to push off to the North American colonies after the Restoration as opposed to all the Witches they failed to drown in the Early Modern "Witch panic"?
 

toughbutfair

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He’s a religious fool but so what. If he is a good rugby player , leave him at it. The so called liberals are really fascist , I’m an atheist and so destined for hell according to him, still would be happy to see him play for my team if he is very good.
 

Dame_Enda

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Noone is attacking his freedom of speech. He has caused grave offence to the LGBT community, and he has shown that the leftwing concept of intersectionalism (the idea that minorities support each other) is often a sham, something also shown by the anti LGBT school protests in Islamic areas of the UK. His invocation of religion to spread hate is something we know all about in Irish and European history, particular in the Six Counties but also in Islamic extremism around the world. The companies that are sponsoring rugby obviously got onto the team and told them they would pull sponsorship if they kept him on. Companies have a right not to be associated with his hate. That does not preventing him continuing his rant in real life, subject to the law.
 

owedtojoy

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That's what I don't get. Rugby Australia have basicly said if you hold certain views that don't chime with the pc zeitgeist keep schtum or you can't play for us. They had no problem with players supporting gay marriage or other right on causes. The job of a rugby player is to play rugby not be a pc mouthpiece. Kanye West says some crazy stuff but his record label aren't dropping him. People don't stop listening to him.
So you would be ok with an anti-semitic rugby player who tweeted Holocaust Denial, or vengeance on Israel?

BTW, your first sentence is complete bullsh!t, or a deliberate lie. Rugby Australia did not interfere with Israel Folau's opposition to gay marriage during the Oz referendum. He was given complete freedom to communicate his opinion, as were the squad members who disagreed.

He was warned (more than once!) not to let his general anti-gay sentiments conflict with his job as an Ambassador for the sport of rugby, because the sport of rugby is not in the anti-gay business. He was too fanatical, or too stupid, to be discrete.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Noone is attacking his freedom of speech. He has caused grave offence to the LGBT community, and he has shown that the leftwing concept of intersectionalism (the idea that minorities support each other) is often a sham, something also shown by the anti LGBT school protests in Islamic areas of the UK. His invocation of religion to spread hate is something we know all about in Irish and European history, particular in the Six Counties but also in Islamic extremism around the world. The companies that are sponsoring rugby obviously got onto the team and told them they would pull sponsorship if they kept him on. Companies have a right not to be associated with his hate. That does not preventing him continuing his rant in real life, subject to the law.
It is OK to cause offence to people - there is no law against that, and there never should be, partly because we all have different thresholds for taking offence, and partly because laws against causing offence are too often used to stifle opposition/debate. Look at the situation in Thailand concerning criticism of the Royal family, or the laws in so many Muslim countries that forbid criticism or ridicule of Allah, Mohammad or clergy.

Remember Charlie Hebdo? Where did you stand on that issue? Many Muslims who would consider themselves to be moderate were offended by that publication and, though they might not have explicitly supported the murder of the journalists, they thought that they had it coming to them.

I may be of the right age, race and gender to conveniently fall into the "gammon" category, but there is no doubt about it - there are a lot of snowflakes out there too, and "wokeness" appears to have evolved into a competitive sport.

Folau's comments on homosexuals and the fires are for the birds, but he is entitled to hold and express them.
 

owedtojoy

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Folau's comments on homosexuals and the fires are for the birds, but he is entitled to hold and express them.
Abso-f**king-lutely.

But not as a spokesman for the sport of rugby, which is much more tolerant as a whole than Folau.
 

Betson

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So you would be ok with an anti-semitic rugby player who tweeted Holocaust Denial, or vengeance on Israel?
You go to see him play Rugby not for his political beliefs.

I think any of the above sentiments would be wrong and would lower my opinion of him as a person but would not stop me cheering for him if he played and scored for the team I supported.

I think Robert De Niro is being a complete imbecile re his meltdowns on Trump but that would not stop me going to see the latest movie he is in if it a Scorsese flick.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Abso-f**king-lutely.

But not as a spokesman for the sport of rugby, which is much more tolerant as a whole than Folau.
He's not a spokesman for the sport of rugby, they have media-trained professionals for that. In Australia that person is Raelene Castle:
Raelene Castle - Wikipedia
 


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