Israel versus Palestine: achieving the two-state solution

El Libre

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Despite unwisely recognising the disputed ground that is Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, US President Donald Trump has stated that he still supports the two-state solution to the Israel versus Palestine conflict. US Vice President Mike Pence has now reiterated support for the two-state solution during his current Middle East visit.

A correspondent in the moderate Israeli newspaper Haaretz has commented:

'In his Jerusalem announcement, the president referred again to a willingness to support a two-state solution negotiated by the parties and to final status issues that must be determined through direct negotiations, so surely he has some plan to bring the two sides to the negotiating table. Maybe Vice President Pence will finally reveal it.

'But even if he did, the administration might already have poisoned the atmosphere for negotiations by recklessly alienating so many Palestinian and Arab leaders.' (End quote)

If the US seriously wants to end the cycle of terror and counter-terror in the area, it is going to have to be seen to do more to help the Palestinians build a viable state within negotiated borders. For their part, the Palestinians and their allies will need to present incontrovertible evidence that they recognise Israel's right to exist, again within negotiated borders. The negotiating table is indeed the only place where these matters can be resolved with any degree of equity. The Northern Ireland Peace Progress phrase 'parity of esteem' might be a useful starting principle.
 


Lúidín

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If the US seriously wants to end the cycle of terror and counter-terror in the area...
It clearly doesn't. US-Israeli policy is one of creeping ethnic cleansing - clearance of the native population, fortified settlements and annexation together with a continuous programme of shootings and imprisonment.
 

darkhorse

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Waste of time - its been tried too many times already
The Arab world will never allow a peace treaty if it does not guarantee the complete destruction of Israel
 

midlander12

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Simply not going to happen so pointless even talking about it. They'd have to accept each other as human first.
 

Dame_Enda

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The two-state solution is dead, but the Israeli regime has not accepted the logical consequence of a One State solution. Like the National Party in South Africa they are trying to maintain Apartheid in the West Bank. Like South Africa the pressure for sanctions and boycotts is growing.

There is little point in negotiation with Netanyahu though I would support trying it. The experience with David Trimble in NI is that he was viewed as a hardliner who had revelled in the Drumcree march, but in the end eventually proved amenable to substantial compromise. Some of the behaviour of the two sides - especially the walkouts during past negotiations by both sides (especially Israel) - is very reminscent of the negotiations on the GFA. And important difference is that the UUP and later the DUP wanted political power, whereas Likud and Jewish Home party already have it. Another difference is that Trimble wasnt calling for colonisation and expulsion (that happened 400 yrs ago), whereas Netanyahu's government is enacting just such a policy as have Israeli govts since 1948.
 
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owedtojoy

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Despite unwisely recognising the disputed ground that is Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, US President Donald Trump has stated that he still supports the two-state solution to the Israel versus Palestine conflict. US Vice President Mike Pence has now reiterated support for the two-state solution during his current Middle East visit.

A correspondent in the moderate Israeli newspaper Haaretz has commented:

'In his Jerusalem announcement, the president referred again to a willingness to support a two-state solution negotiated by the parties and to final status issues that must be determined through direct negotiations, so surely he has some plan to bring the two sides to the negotiating table. Maybe Vice President Pence will finally reveal it.

'But even if he did, the administration might already have poisoned the atmosphere for negotiations by recklessly alienating so many Palestinian and Arab leaders.' (End quote)

If the US seriously wants to end the cycle of terror and counter-terror in the area, it is going to have to be seen to do more to help the Palestinians build a viable state within negotiated borders. For their part, the Palestinians and their allies will need to present incontrovertible evidence that they recognise Israel's right to exist, again within negotiated borders. The negotiating table is indeed the only place where these matters can be resolved with any degree of equity. The Northern Ireland Peace Progress phrase 'parity of esteem' might be a useful starting principle.
FFS, Trump's emissary, Jared Kushner, supported illegal Israeli settlements financially, and continue to do so.

It just shows the utter contempt that Trump and Kusher have for Palestinians. "Parity of esteem" me bollix!

The pressure is on to force the Palestinians to accept a small village outside Jerusalem as their "capital", have a few counties or cantons as their "state", with overall security in the hands of Israel. An apartheid state, in other words, with Bantustans as cheap labour where almost 50% of the population will live in poverty, or forfeit their land if the Israeli state decides.

Trump or Kushner may get their way, but does anyone really think this is a "peace" settlement that could last?

Meanwhile, Israel is perfectly happy with the status quo, and has no incentive, or is under no pressure, to do anything.

Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner financed Israeli extremists and illegal settlements
 

darkhorse

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The two-state solution is dead, but the Israeli regime has not accepted the logical consequence of a One State solution. Like the National Party in South Africa they are trying to maintain Apartheid in the West Bank. Like South Africa the pressure for sanctions and boycotts is growing.
'West Bank' is not a country
Israel is a country but is not an apartheid State
This little picture might help clarify


 

former wesleyan

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Those have been debunked so many times I don't know why you bother any more. The first " map " for a start is a steal from a collection tin for the Jewish National Fund from the 1920's showing land bought by the fund. If you look you'll see some of the land was in what's now called the West Bank and wwhich was taken by Jordan in 1948. The bottom third is the Negev which wasn't owned by anyone, being largely barren and criscrossed by the Bedouin.

 

Dame_Enda

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'West Bank' is not a country
Israel is a country but is not an apartheid State
This little picture might help clarify


The system in the West Bank can only be described as Apartheid.
 

El Libre

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Interesting views on the Palestinian issue in a recent letter to the Irish Times from an Israeli-born academic:

'Sir, – David Abrahamson claims that the 1948 colonial war against the Palestinian people was “Israel’s defensive war of independence” (December 4th). A Jewish Israeli (and Irish) citizen, I have researched the Zionist colonisation of Palestine for many years. Contrary to his claim that it was the UN General Assembly vote to accept resolution 181, which called for the partition of British-ruled Mandate Palestine, that led to the declaration of war by the region’s Arab states, the expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians from their homes and lands during the 1948 Nakba (catastrophe) had mostly preceded the 1948 war.

Among the myths debunked by the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe in Ten Myths About Israel is the myth of “the (Jewish) few against the (Arab) many”, as he outlines the Zionist superiority in terms of both imperialist support and weaponry. Pappe also highlights the extent of planning for the colonisation of Palestine so that the Zionists could take “as much of Palestine as possible with as few (existing) inhabitants as was practical”.

Readers should realise, as do many Jewish, Irish and international supporters of Palestinian freedom, that Israel has been a colonising power all along, rather than merely waging “a defensive war of independence”. – Yours, etc,

Dr RONIT LENTIN,

Dublin 8'
(End quote)
 

El Libre

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Those have been debunked so many times I don't know why you bother any more. The first " map " for a start is a steal from a collection tin for the Jewish National Fund from the 1920's showing land bought by the fund. If you look you'll see some of the land was in what's now called the West Bank and wwhich was taken by Jordan in 1948. The bottom third is the Negev which wasn't owned by anyone, being largely barren and criscrossed by the Bedouin.
Care to try and debunk the 2016 map, which shows the increasing ghettoization of Palestinians, and I use that term with full sympathy for the historical experiences of Jews in Europe.
 

Ardillaun

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'West Bank' is not a country
Israel is a country but is not an apartheid State
This little picture might help clarify


Can’t see picture.

Your statement above is consistent with what may happen in the 1.1 solution. The Palestinians will live in isolated enclaves, not a country, in the West Bank surrounded by Israeli settlers and, ultimately, Israel.
 

former wesleyan

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Care to try and debunk the 2016 map, which shows the increasing ghettoization of Palestinians, and I use that term with full sympathy for the historical experiences of Jews in Europe.
The 2016 map bears no relation to the actual size of the settlements ,but shows the security area around them as being settled. Actual settlements are only about 2% of the WB and the three largest are built within sight of Jerusalem. In any case the past talks - especially those conducted by Olmert and Abbas offered land swops in return for keeping the settlements near the Green Line. You need to get it into your head that the Palestinian leadership will never do a deal with Israel because there'll always be someone to call them traitors. The Palestinian leadership doesn't suffer because of the Israeli occupation of the WB ; they're rich and happy to go on gaming the system for all it's worth. I'm taking it as read by the way that Likud have no interest either. And as a postscript you should remember that the Palestine referred to in the first map - from 1946 - is inaccurate because the only Palestine in existence then was Mandated Palestine and the map of that bears no relation as it was derived from the Ottoman vilayat mapping system and included what is now Jordan.
 

Dame_Enda

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The settlements are no better than Cromwells plantations.
 

The System Works

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These maps are ridiculous. The 1946 map shows land purchased privately by the Jewish National Fund in white, but the vast majority of the green territory (‘Palestinian Land’) could never have been owned in the same way. Surely not every inch of the lonely expanses of the Negev had an individual owner-occupier? Much of the land all over the country - I belive over 75% - belonged to the state, which became legally Israel's after 1948.

They have even colored the Sea of Galilee green to make that ‘Palestinian’ too.

While the second map is an accurate representation of the partition plan, it has nothing to do with land ownership. For instance, the post-1948 maps do not show privately-held Arab land within Israel. Today, half of the privately owned land in the country, i.e. that which does not belong to the Jewish National Fund or The Israel Lands Administration, is owned by Arabs.

So these maps are, in short, worthless.
 
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londonpride

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'At least 95 Palestinians (20 of them children) and 16 Israelis have been killed by someone from the other side in 2017.' Photographs of these human beings from both sides can be viewed at https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/2017deaths/
What about the many women killed in the many honor killings in the Palestinian territories Six this year in Gaza alone .
Yet this is never reported in the western media. Women are treated like slaves in these areas.
 


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