Israeli cabinet approves new 'loyalty oath' for citizens

gijoe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,206
The oath will require new citizens to give allegiance to Israel as a 'Jewish and democratic' State. It was passed by the cabinet on 22 to 8 vote and now needs to be passed by Parliament to enter law.

The Jewish element of the oath is of course the controversial element but in truth is it really any different from the 'special relationship' with the Catholic Church of Bunreacht nahEireann?

RT News: Israeli cabinet approves loyalty oath
 


Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,914
Meh. A lot of countries pledges involve God or a specific religion.
 

collina

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
3,409
The oath will require new citizens to give allegiance to Israel as a 'Jewish and democratic' State. It was passed by the cabinet on 22 to 8 vote and now needs to be passed by Parliament to enter law.

The Jewish element of the oath is of course the controversial element but in truth is it really any different from the 'special relationship' with the Catholic Church of Bunreacht nahEireann?

RT News: Israeli cabinet approves loyalty oath

Our constitution doesn't compel citizens to swear allegiance to Ireland as 'a Catholic and democratic state. Israel tends towards this type of rampant nationalism and racism so we shouldn't be surprised.
 

gijoe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,206
Our constitution doesn't compel citizens to swear allegiance to Ireland as 'a Catholic and democratic state. Israel tends towards this type of rampant nationalism and racism so we shouldn't be surprised.
How is it racist? I do not know of any ethnic group that is debarred from being Jewish.
 

Panopticon

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
5,575
Not much worse that "one nation, under God", or invoking God in a constitution.
 

pedagogus

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
2,566
israeli citizenship

How is it racist? I do not know of any ethnic group that is debarred from being Jewish.
It is not as simple as that.The Law of Return does not automatically give a right to Israeli citizenship.Some years ago the Israeli Supreme court refused citizenship to an ethnic Jew who had become a catholic priest.
 

bananarepublic.ie

Active member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
237
Even we do the oath.

Becoming an Irish citizen through naturalisation-Information from CitizensInformation.ie

If your application is approved, the letter notifying you of this decision will contain instructions regarding the final procedures that must be completed before the certificate of naturalisation can be issued. These procedures include swearing an oath of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State (usually done before a Judge of the District Court - the letter will give details of this procedure) and paying the appropriate fee.
I dont see what's the big deal here.
 

borntorum

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
12,633
The problem is the Jewish bit.

Of course, plenty of predominantly Muslim countries officially describe themselves as 'Islamic', so perhaps what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. However, it would be better if all middle eastern countries moved towards secularism than rather institutionalising sectarianism
 
Last edited:

Q-Tours

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
2,454
Article 9.3 of Búnreacht na hÉireann:

Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens.
Political duties, mind you. And while the RCC may have had (until 1973) a "special position" in the State, the two were identified as separate entities. The State didn't (or at least, wasn't meant to by the Constitution!) to enforce loyalty to the RCC.

I'd have doubts about the constitutionality of requiring naturalising citizens to swear an oath (presumably carrying penalties for perjury etc) that native citizens couldn't be compelled to swear (after all, it's a political duty, not a legal one). The situation is not comparable to the Israeli one.

As I understand it, the Israeli law will disenfranchise those who don't swear "loyalty" and possibly exclude them from education, welfare and health benefits etc.

That is illiberal, undemocratic, and sectarian. It is clearly designed to reinforce the exclusion of Israeli Muslims from the state that was imposed on them and to leave them no democratic means of improving their situation. It is despicable.
 

Breadan O'Connor

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
1,242
The oath will require new citizens to give allegiance to Israel as a 'Jewish and democratic' State. It was passed by the cabinet on 22 to 8 vote and now needs to be passed by Parliament to enter law.

There would be massive outrage if prospective Irish citizens were required to pledge loylty to Ireland as an "Irish and Catholic" state.

Indeed I could imagine some of our Jewish citizens leading the chorus of disaproval.
 

imokyrok

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
4,490
Calling the state of Israel Jewish and Democratic is a contradiction in terms. Why should an atheist or a christian or a muslim be required to take such a loyalty pledge? Israel takes another step backwards.

Daily Kos: Being excluded and slated for transfer
This week the fascist foreign minister of Israel took a first step in his incessant push to disenfranchise Israel's Arab citizens under the slogan "No Citizenship without Loyalty."

Things have gotten even worse in Israel for people like me. Institutionally, life has for decades been unbearable for Israel's Arab citizens. For many years, and to this day, we are forbidden to marry other Palestinians, unless we are willing to move out of Israel and into the refugee camps infested by hunger and sealed by military occupation. Our people are not allowed, because of municipal decrees, to live in most Jewish neighborhoods and municipalities and must in large remain in our over crowded villages and towns.

But things have gotten worse. In most ways now we are second class citizens. Socially we are almost entirely excluded from the centers of commerce and culture. Racism against Arabs is uniform, apparent, and the experience is explicit. There is no shyness in the abusive treatment that an Arab Israeli receives at the hands of every-day people. For many decades it has been acceptable to openly worry about the population growth of our community. How many children were born to Arab women this year? Will the Galilee have a majority Arab population?

But now it has become acceptable to talk about transfer and stripping Arabs of their citizenship.

Things have gotten worse. Entering a train station the guard asks "Are you a Jew?" The interrogator at the airport is instructed to ask me a citizen with an Israeli passport "Are you a Jew?" At the pub the random drunk asks "Are you a Jew?" At a concert in Tel-Aviv the usher asks me, a citizen of Israel, "Are you a Jew?" I never in the first two decades of my life was asked that question. It would have been unacceptable. But now it seems to be on everyone's mind.

So here is my loyalty oath to you Israel, my country:

I have absolutely no loyalty to Judaism or to this or that made up God. I am an atheist.

I have no loyalty to any peoples or any ethnicity or nationality. Politically constructed rubbish.

I have no loyalty to any state including Israel.

I have loyalty to a humanist perspective and should we in Israel institute laws reflecting this, I will be loyal to ideas and ideals.

So where is the left in Israel? It has disappeared mainly because there can be no political left without political theory. No left without ideology. No left without coherence. And there is little that is coherently leftist left in Israel because no leftists perspective can be reconciled with abhorrent questions like: "Are you a Jew?" and "How many children were born to Arab women this year?" and "How can we maintain a Jewish majority greater than 70% in Israel?"
 

Risteard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
456
It is an illegal state. Free Occupied Palestine. There is no such country as "Israel".
 

galleyslave

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
590
those pesky jews. I heard that after taking the oath you have to eat a muslim baby. Think that's true ?
 

galleyslave

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
590
It is an illegal state. Free Occupied Palestine. There is no such country as "Israel".
what a crock of excrement. I think the UN, Israel and the rest of the world would disagree. In fact, pretty much all of the arabian peninsula gets quite exercised about this non existant state :roll:
 

FutureTaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
7,980
Website
greatdearleader.blogspot.com
The oath will require new citizens to give allegiance to Israel as a 'Jewish and democratic' State. It was passed by the cabinet on 22 to 8 vote and now needs to be passed by Parliament to enter law.

The Jewish element of the oath is of course the controversial element but in truth is it really any different from the 'special relationship' with the Catholic Church of Bunreacht nahEireann?

RT News: Israeli cabinet approves loyalty oath
The "special place" of the Catholic Church was removed from the Irish Constitution in 1937 so no - it isn't analogous to our Constitution today. Neither is it comparable to the Constitition in 1937 as it also specifically recognised several other faiths including Anglicanism and Judaism. The Arabs are effectively being forced - on pain of losing Israeli citizenship - to swear an oath to a concept of a one-dimensional, confessional, ethnocratic state. The Zionist entity appears to be trying to provoke a conflict with its Arab citizens by alienating them from the State with provocations such as these.

This is no better than forcing Southern Protestants to swear an oath to "a Catholic Ireland", or vice-versa. Highly inflammatory and bigoted.
 

imokyrok

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
4,490

FutureTaoiseach

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
7,980
Website
greatdearleader.blogspot.com

gijoe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,206
The problem is the Jewish bit.

Of course, plenty of predominantly Muslim countries officially describe themselves as 'Islamic', so perhaps what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. However, it would be better if all middle eastern countries moved towards secularism than institutionalising sectarianism
That's a fair comparative I guess. If neighbouring hostile States can describe themselves as Islamic then its not unreasonable for Israel to require fidelity to it as a Jewish State.
 


New Threads

Top