• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Israel's creepy Christian friends


L

lochlannach

So the Christian right in the USA (and other countries) are strong supporters of Israel. But how many Israelis understand the motivation behind that support?

Many of these fundamentalists believe literally in the Armageddon when in the Last Days of Tribulation, Jews will be offered the chance to convert to Christianity and accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah. If they refuse, they will be annihilated. A prerequisite for this is the ingathering of all Jews into Israel to facilitate this outcome.

What could be more anti-Semitic? In the past, American Christian fundamentalists were vehemently anti-Jewish. They haven't really changed their spots and I wonder how many Jews and Israelis realise this?

The Unannounced Reason Behind American Fundamentalism's Support for the State of Israel
Noam Chomsky Says Christian Right Supports Israel Because They Are Anti-Semitic and Want the Jewish Population to Be Exterminated by Armageddon | Video | TheBlaze.com
 


flavirostris

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
24,877
I'm sure they know but Christian Evangelicals are powerful allies of Israel in the US. Even more fanatical than some Zionist organisations.

Pat Robertson remarked that Ariel Sharon had been put into a coma for the grave sin of abandoning Gaza. Evangelicals believe Israel should have every inch of the former Palestine with no quarter to the Arabs.

Former GOP House leaders Tom DeLay and Dick Armey, who both had close links to the Christian Right were hardline Israel supporters with the latter advocating that the West Bank be ethnically cleansed of Palestinians. Tom DeLay spoke about standing on the West Bank and "seeing no occupied territory".
"I only saw Israel" he said.
 

drummed

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
37,436
And the days Israel thread is off at last. How did we get to 5.18pm without one?
Standards are dropping big time.

(Not too impressed with the lack of Alan Shatter reference in the OP but no doubt he'll appear soon).
 

pinemartin

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
6,724
And the days Israel thread is off at last. How did we get to 5.18pm without one?
Standards are dropping big time.

(Not too impressed with the lack of Alan Shatter reference in the OP but no doubt he'll appear soon).
What was yesterdays Israeli thread or even the day before?
 

drummed

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
37,436
What was yesterdays Israeli thread or even the day before?

Seriously? I could'nt be bothered looking. Jews stealing Arabs bikes or sometime probably. Who cares?

We have this one now so lets not dwell on the past. Just be grateful for what we have.
 

west'sawake

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
3,649
I've met some of these so-called Christians in the past.

The ones I've met are American Evangelical Christians who invariably read the Bible in a literal sense especially the Book of Revelation.
It is a concern of mine too that even in some Catholic 'intellectual' circles there is an undercurrent of neo conservatism simplified in Israel good, Palestine bad, every bit as narrow as the consensus on the left, Palestine good Israel bad. George Weigel for example, who is a very good Catholic apologist, too often strays into only pro Israeli polemics. This may be the case too with some in Ireland, though presently it is only a suspicion and not too well founded.
 
L

lochlannach

And the days Israel thread is off at last. How did we get to 5.18pm without one?
Standards are dropping big time.

(Not too impressed with the lack of Alan Shatter reference in the OP but no doubt he'll appear soon).
It's hidden in there like in a word search puzzle.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,840
" I'll take 'em.! "

Reputedly Bibi's response to a warning about the nature of the evangelicals attachment to Israel. :cool:

Imagine Jews not knowing what xtians of whatever stripe think of them.
 

pinemartin

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
6,724
Seriously? I could'nt be bothered looking. Jews stealing Arabs bikes or sometime probably. Who cares?

We have this one now so lets not dwell on the past. Just be grateful for what we have.
I take that as an admission that you were over egging the pudding. I am not checking either but I would be surprised if there was one a week let alone one a day.
 

L'Chaim

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
18,875
Oh it must be nice for some to believe that Israel supporters are all creepy religious zealots. However you need to look at the anti-Israel brigade to see 'creepy' in action. To them (and you see lots of evidence of it on p.ie) everything Israel does is wrong and everything done wrong in the world is because of Israel (or Israel is behind it). For example we have an anti Israel poster who earlier today tried to link Israel to the oppression of the Turkish people by Erdogan. His/her logic being that this NATO member state must have used Israeli weapons against its own people, ergo Israel is responsible for the deaths and injuries of Turkish protestors.

These anti-Israel people and groups, who think everything Israel does is wrong and everything wrong done in the world is done by Israel or with Israeli support, argue out of both sides of their mouths, and they don't see anything wrong in it. To them Capitalism and Communism (whichever is supposed to be bad) is supported by Israel. I've also seen this attitude shown in full blown antisemitism, when they claim that Jews were cowards and walked into the gas chambers while at the same time are too militant because Israel won so many wars against the Arabs.

When Israeli companies develop cures for illnesses or makes progress in developments in fighting illnesses then there has to be some malevolent motive behind it or some hidden agenda. Same when Israeli companies make huge leaps in technology development. I've even heard it argued that because the Israeli army has the lowest rate of rape in the world against enemy civilians (none or next to none) that it must mean the IDF are so racist that they do not find palestinian women attractive enough to rape. They also say that Israel's positive approach to gay rights is a deliberate attempt to gain good publicity to offset what it is supposedly doing to the palestinians.

Now when Israel sends aid or aid teams to help in natural disasters that occur around the world (Tsunami and Hurricane victims) they must be only doing it to gain good publicity to offset what it is supposedly doing to the palestinians. That argument was used on this site. When Israel treats over 180,000 palestinians every year in hospitals this is not seen as a good thing because Israel must be responsible for the illnesses of these people (heart problems, cancers, etc). I've also seen that argument used on this site. I've also seen it argued that Israeli medical advancements are only down to the fact that Israel attacks the palestinians, hezbollh etc and it uses its injured soldiers as some sort of medical guinea pigs.

When Israel is attacked by over 10,000 rockets from gaza these rockets are dismissed as peashooters (this was argued earlier today in another thread) and Israeli responses to these attacks are a sign of Israeli barbarity.

Now lets look at Israel's position on gay rights, womens' rights etc. In the surrounding Arab states and the palestinian controlled areas, gays and women are murdered for being gay, being loose women etc. again these are seen as Israel just trying to cover up what they are doing to the palestinians. These people would prefer to see Israel treat gays and women the way Israel’s enemies do, because they hate Israel more than they care about gay rights or womens' rights. Israel is also accused of being the same, if not worse, that apartheid South Africa, despite all the evidence to show there is not a smidgen of truth in that comparison.

Israel, to anti-Israel groups and people, must be held to blame at every turn. You see it in their campaigns and you see it on sites like this. Every argument has to show Israel in the worst light possible and nothing is off limits. Just go through any of the anti-Israel threads here and you will see those bad arguments. Israel is a colonial imperalist state, Jews displaced palestinians, Zionism is racism, Israel is a racist state, Israel is an apartheid state, Israel is the main human rights violator in the world, Israel has denied the palestinians statehood, Israel engages in genocide, Israel behaviour towards the palestinians is the same, or worse, than the Nazis were to Jews, Israel created the palestinian refugee problem, Israel carries out ethnic cleansing etc. etc. And then you read threads which are akin to what another poster jokingly referred to as the "Israeli steals palestinian bike" type thread. All done to demonise Israel. A settler attacks a palestinian and this is dished out as proof of Israeli policy towards the palestinians. A palestinian kills Israel babies and it's the family of the dead babies that are at fault because of where they live.

Now the difference between me and the poster who started this thread is I understand why the anti-Israel groups have to do this. To make their arguments work they have to try and demonise Israel at every turn. Nothing is off limits and they have to try and portray Israel as being the worst in the world. The poster of the OP does it too by trying to show that Israeli supporters are creepy Christians. Israel must at all times be seen to be wrong, its supporters must be "creepy" and everything in between is fair game as long as it shows Israel in a bad light. Now I get why they need to do this, but they do their cause no good because they lose people when they make these types of arguments. You lose intelligent people when your arguments are magnified out of all proportion
 
L

lochlannach

Whoa....! I didn't say that all friends of Israel were creepy! Just the Christian fundis.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,840
Whoa....! I didn't say that all friends of Israel were creepy! Just the Christian fundis.
Two of the best friends Israel had in America were of Irish Catholic descent...........JFKand Daniel Patrick Moynihan, the latter at that rats nest, the UN.
 

kalipa

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
10,128
Israel is welcome to those loons who ignore the very basics of Christianity, the Ten Commandments. They suit each other & have a lot in common
 

gerhard dengler

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,517
It is a concern of mine too that even in some Catholic 'intellectual' circles there is an undercurrent of neo conservatism simplified in Israel good, Palestine bad, every bit as narrow as the consensus on the left, Palestine good Israel bad. George Weigel for example, who is a very good Catholic apologist, too often strays into only pro Israeli polemics. This may be the case too with some in Ireland, though presently it is only a suspicion and not too well founded.
That's an interesting post because I haven't noticed that same trend in terms of Catholicism, but I don't follow that commentary closely I should add.

It's my experience that the literal interpretation of the Bible fuels the Evangelical worldview to the extent that the location called Armageddon is going to be the site for the end of time.
I remember discussing this with two of them in America and they were absolutely certain that Armageddon was going to be the location.

I countered that the Bible was written at a point in time and that a location known to that contemporaneous audience for that writing made it logical that a location known to them would have been selected for the end of time instead of a location not known to them ie. Paris or Dublin or Washington.
In other words, I was trying to make the point that no one knows where the end of the world will happen.
But these two people couldn't be persuaded as to the logic of my argument.
 
Last edited:

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,263
The US Christian Right are extremely hateful towards gay people. One female Evangelical group "Concerned Women for America" believes homosexuality should be a crime, These people overwhelmingly disbelieve in evolution (including 78% of Republicans). I recommend viewing "Gods Warriors" - a CNN series - on youtube to see just how insane they are. They actually believe US foreign policy in the Middle East should be motivated by Biblical prophesy (or their interpretation of it). That is just as dangerous as Hamas. I'd say more have died in the name of radical Christianity than radical Islam. When Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House he is supposed to have warned Israel against 'handing Jerusalem over to Arafat'. The Religious Right are opposed to Middle East peace, because they think a cataclysmic war/Armagadeen will bring about the Second Coming.
 

The Owl

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
2,967
The US Christian Right are extremely hateful towards gay people. One female Evangelical group "Concerned Women for America" believes homosexuality should be a crime, These people overwhelmingly disbelieve in evolution (including 78% of Republicans). I recommend viewing "Gods Warriors" - a CNN series - on youtube to see just how insane they are. They actually believe US foreign policy in the Middle East should be motivated by Biblical prophesy (or their interpretation of it). That is just as dangerous as Hamas. I'd say more have died in the name of radical Christianity than radical Islam. When Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House he is supposed to have warned Israel against 'handing Jerusalem over to Arafat'. The Religious Right are opposed to Middle East peace, because they think a cataclysmic war/Armagadeen will bring about the Second Coming.
So basically, the believers of the Sky Fairy still rule the world. This Sky fairy belief leads to nothing but war and hatred. And these lunatics all claim to believe in the One Sky Fairy. It's so bloody ridiculous it's embarrassing. I was watching David Attenborough again today on telly and once again I was so impressed by the love and care a female crocodile gave, not only to her own new brood but other baby crocs who had lost their mammies. Bringing them safely to water, waiting for them to keep up with her, guarding them from other predators. Beautiful it was, watching this cold-blooded creature show so much care for all the babies in her sight. Now that is what we should aspire to.

Just because we humans are top of the food chain doesn't necessarily make us the Sky Fairy's people, does it? We are war mongering wreckers of this world and should there be a God, he must despise us because all we do is destroy the beauty and the environment all other life forms depend on.
 

former wesleyan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
25,840
Israel is welcome to those loons who ignore the very basics of Christianity, the Ten Commandments. They suit each other & have a lot in common
The basis of Christianity is the Sermon on the Mount , not the Ten Commandments.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top