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Its not my fault, its my genes....


SevenStars

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Theodore Darlymple (a pen name) is one of the most interesting and thoughtful of conservatives alive today. One of the contradictions of liberal society is that it at least claims to value freedom more than anything else and yet it also sets out to negate on personal responsibility for evil and/or failure (someone rapes or kills because they have had a bad childhood and therefore society should think in terms only rehabillition and not punishment is an extreme example of this though many today, especially among the middle class left, hold this opinion). Strangely liberals dont seem to notice that shrill protests of liberty and shrill protests of an absolving determinism contradict each other radically.

A Russian in England was reported to have said when an English girl claimed something wasnt her fault because she was dyslexic that there was no such thing in the Soviet Union. Very limited access to generate pop music, not allowing kids to spend hours playing computer games, an education system based on forming character as opposed to passing exams to get jobs, strong family life and good parenting will tend to do that for a culture.
 

martino

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Feb 22, 2009
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I was in town today, saw lots of teenagers hanging around. Frightening stuff, I can tell you. Every generation rebels against the previous, I know, but this new cohort can't even walk properly. For many standing seemed a bit of a hassle. No kidding.
 

yellowfish

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Theodore Darlymple (a pen name) is one of the most interesting and thoughtful of conservatives alive today. One of the contradictions of liberal society is that it at least claims to value freedom more than anything else and yet it also sets out to negate on personal responsibility for evil and/or failure (someone rapes or kills because they have had a bad childhood and therefore society should think in terms only rehabillition and not punishment is an extreme example of this though many today, especially among the middle class left, hold this opinion). Strangely liberals dont seem to notice that shrill protests of liberty and shrill protests of an absolving determinism contradict each other radically.

A Russian in England was reported to have said when an English girl claimed something wasnt her fault because she was dyslexic that there was no such thing in the Soviet Union. Very limited access to generate pop music, not allowing kids to spend hours playing computer games, an education system based on forming character as opposed to passing exams to get jobs, strong family life and good parenting will tend to do that for a culture.
Then the Russian was not very apt at using google, loads of information on dyslexia in Russia their. Don't know why your using it alongside ADHD.
Are you saying that dyslexia is actually a cultural phenomena and we should all just knuckle down and hope for better parenting?
What are you saying? what is your point, other than repeating something a Russian may or may not have said which was balls anyway?

Edit- I see your Russian was talking about the soviet union, my apologies of course everything was better in the workers paradise, Health, housing, education and Gulags were all top notch.
 

SevenStars

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Then the Russian was not very apt at using google, loads of information on dyslexia in Russia their. Don't know why your using it alongside ADHD.
Are you saying that dyslexia is actually a cultural phenomena and we should all just knuckle down and hope for better parenting?
What are you saying? what is your point, other than repeating something a Russian may or may not have said which was balls anyway?
The way that people apparently suffering these "disorders" has risen to such a great extent and risen at the same time and to the same extent as certain cultural trends deserves looking at it....Doesnt it?
 

yellowfish

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The way that people apparently suffering these "disorders" has risen to such a great extent and risen at the same time and to the same extent as certain cultural trends deserves looking at it....Doesnt it?
Well you could start by showing how your chosen "disorders" are related, and highlight exactly which cultural trends you are talking about and show how your disorders have grown in relation to them. Personally i was dyslexic before i met any of your trends and i am not aware of any links to ADHD so you realy need to justify that one.
The only reason i ever suffered anything relating to my dyslexia as a child was because of the ignorance of others, Is ignorance genetic?
 

biteback

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Jan 26, 2007
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111
Theodore Darlymple (a pen name) is one of the most interesting and thoughtful of conservatives alive today. One of the contradictions of liberal society is that it at least claims to value freedom more than anything else and yet it also sets out to negate on personal responsibility for evil and/or failure (someone rapes or kills because they have had a bad childhood and therefore society should think in terms only rehabillition and not punishment is an extreme example of this though many today, especially among the middle class left, hold this opinion). Strangely liberals dont seem to notice that shrill protests of liberty and shrill protests of an absolving determinism contradict each other radically.

A Russian in England was reported to have said when an English girl claimed something wasnt her fault because she was dyslexic that there was no such thing in the Soviet Union. Very limited access to generate pop music, not allowing kids to spend hours playing computer games, an education system based on forming character as opposed to passing exams to get jobs, strong family life and good parenting will tend to do that for a culture.
I could have at least partially agreed with you on the first point that society often apportions blame and causes for things for which there really is no cause i.e. a paedophile who was abused as a child only rapes children now because of that abuse. But then you went and ruined it by insinuating that dyslexia is entirely caused by pop music and computer games. Yes some people who are diagnosed with it probably shouldn't be, but attributing it purely to

Anyway what constitutes someone as a liberal or a conservative? I'd call myself economically conservative (preferring the national accounts to be balanced, with Pension Reserve Fund style savings where possible). Yet I'd also call myself socially liberal - preferring religion to be left at the school gate among other things.
 

Panopticon

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That's because the OP is conflating liberalism with socialism. Rookie mistake, but the followers of American conservative Christianists do it all the time.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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The way that people apparently suffering these "disorders" has risen to such a great extent and risen at the same time and to the same extent as certain cultural trends deserves looking at it....Doesnt it?
I agree with you, SS. These things do need to be investigated. And a proportion of Behavioural Problems may well be genetic.

But a big chunk of such problems have epigenetic or other other congenital causes. Just for one example, there's firm scientific proof that drinking alcohol during pregnancy can cause neurobehavioral problems in children; it's called"alcohol-related neurodevelopmental disorder".

Health Services in Ireland and the UK should be putting more resources into Mother & Child services for the very poorest sections of the community (those that the Irish middle-classes like to label "the undeserving poor").
 

SevenStars

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I agree with you, SS. These things do need to be investigated. And a proportion of Behavioural Problems may well be genetic.

.
We are all born with tendencies to anti-social/self-destructive/bad/etc behaviours...Thats the human condition that we all have to struggle with (I have a tendency to be aggressive aswell as a tendency to over the top romanticism while others might have a tendency to be lazy or to steal, etc). Whether those tendencies actually becomes manifest depends on two factors...1.) Our own free moral choice (people choose to do evil no matter what anyone says) and 2.) The structures and attitudes that surround us. We arent "naturally" good because most of the time to be good involves a struggle and its often much easier to do the wrong thing (there is a strong argument that a lot of people become bad basically through laziness), therefore we need structures in society that bring out the best in us and keep the worst in a potential state.

Whatever about dyslexia the article that I linked too (written by a psychiatric doctor) does seem to show that Attention Deficet Disorder those partly come from a culture that doesnt foster concentration and would be better tackled culturally than chemically.
 

SevenStars

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That's because the OP is conflating liberalism with socialism. Rookie mistake, but the followers of American conservative Christianists do it all the time.
How am I conflating liberalism with socialism?

Socialist societies tend to be conservative (some times to much so) and always balance rights with duties. Socialism in many ways has more in common philosophically with traditional conservatism than it does with liberalism (the wacky "New Left" excluded).
 

Bebsaboo

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Have you considered the nature of how information is relayed in the internet generation? A short attention span is sufficient in a world of google searches and social networking. Evolution isn't just a biological process.
 

SevenStars

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Health Services in Ireland and the UK should be putting more resources into Mother & Child services for the very poorest sections of the community (those that the Irish middle-classes like to label "the undeserving poor").
How much real poverty is there in Ireland?

Ive been in countries where you see grandmothers each morning begging in order to buy bread for the day and where a lot of able-bodied people have serious worries about feeding the kids next week. Thats real poverty.

There is very generous dole in the 26 counties (a good bit more generous than the UK). A lot of the poverty that we have is social and cultural...Lets have it the elite dont show much leadership at all to everybody else but the effects of destructive behaviour show themselves more openly as you go down the social ladder.

Also I think recieving the dole long term is bad for people both psychologically and morally. I think we badly need some (just, not like the ones that exist in the north which are unjust) workfare system where people earn their "dole".
 

Sean O'Brian

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Anyway what constitutes someone as a liberal or a conservative? I'd call myself economically conservative (preferring the national accounts to be balanced, with Pension Reserve Fund style savings where possible). Yet I'd also call myself socially liberal - preferring religion to be left at the school gate among other things.
It depends who you ask. If you ask me, we should go with the original ordering used in the French National Assembly. The people who sat on the right were not free marketeers - they were Catholic traditionalists. Equalitarian ideologies (Communism, socialism, liberalism) are all of the left.

So an economic leftist/social liberal is a left-liberal and an economic conservative/social liberal is a right-liberal. These are two aspects of the same thing. In the 19th century libertarianism ("Manchester liberalism" in the parlance of the day) was recognised as being on the left.

Theodore Dalrymple is a Burkean conservative, someone trying to preserve the traditions of society while upholding property rights etc. If you are hostile to Christianity you can't be called a conservative. Dalrymple's atheism does not disqualify him from conservatism.
 
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SevenStars

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Jul 17, 2009
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Anyway what constitutes someone as a liberal or a conservative? I'd call myself economically conservative (preferring the national accounts to be balanced, with Pension Reserve Fund style savings where possible). Yet I'd also call myself socially liberal - preferring religion to be left at the school gate among other things.
Good question....Conservatives are those who seek primarily to conserve some set of values or way of life while as liberals whether of the PD or "New Left" variety dont really believe in anything that transcends narrow self-interest. In the late nineteen century the conservative states par excelance, the German and Russian Empires, had much more protection for their workforces and even in the case of Germany the large beginning of a "Welfare State". In liberal Britain and France on the other hand factory owners were almost allowed to do what they pleased and their was hardly any "safety net".

In 1980s Ireland I would be considered socially liberal (because Im in favour of legal divorce and legal contraception being available to anyone). However now because Im not an out and out nihilist I would be considered socially conservative.

The majiority of people on this board have a mix of New Left amoralism and Thatcherite economics. Those two things actually go well together and both in the medium term spell chaos and destruction.

What we need in this country is a revival of the essentially Prussian spirit of Pearse and Connolly.
 

Mossy Heneberry

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Interesting report by OFSTED here: Ofsted: Children given special needs label to disguise bad teaching

According to the education watchdog, children are falsely labelled as having special needs to disguise poor teaching.

Almost 750,000 children are falsely labelled as having special needs to disguise poor teaching, it has been claimed.

Ofsted observed that as many as half of children with certain categories of behavioural and learning problems were actually "no different" to other students.

Indeed, the education watchdog has insisted that many of those with special needs were simply "underachieving".

This alleged underachievement has been attributed to poor teaching standards and expectations of pupils being too low.

"Higher expectations of all children, and better teaching and learning, would lead to fewer children being identified as having special educational needs," commented Christine Gilbert, chief inspector of schools.

At present, 1.7 million children in England are registered as having special needs.

Ofsted is the non-ministerial government department of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Schools in England.
 

Sean O'Brian

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The majiority of people on this board have a mix of New Left amoralism and Thatcherite economics. Those two things actually go well together and both in the medium term spell chaos and destruction.
Yes. In retrospect Thatcherism was more neoliberalism than conservatism. Some Thatcherites even morph into left-liberals later in life. I'm thinking of Michael Portillo and Niall Ferguson.
 

farnaby

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That some children suffer from Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, probably of organic and neurological origin, seems certain. But the problem with conditions that are diagnosed purely by observation and reports of behaviour, without any clear biological marker such as an abnormality in a blood test, is that they tend to seep through the population like ink through blotting paper.
We have seen this clearly with the diagnosis of depression, which was once an uncommon but very serious condition. Now it is a diagnosis that has effectively banished the word "unhappiness" from the English language, at least as it is used in doctors' surgeries and in hospitals. Depression – that is to say, all forms of human unhappiness – has become a technical problem, to be solved by medication or by some other technique.
The problem with this approach is that it encourages the hope of a quick and easy solution, to be supplied by others, and averts our gaze from unpleasant realities.
Good article. Aligns with various critiques of Enlightenment thinking, which in its search for truth starts with the individual rather than society (cogito ergo sum...) and emphasises scientific rational objectivity to the exclusion of supposedly irrational subjectivity. As a consequence, the 'person' shrinks to become a blank cipher rather than a full ethical character, and to examine a social problem becomes a study in the mechanical workings of individual bodies.

Which may be a good scientific approach - but as Dalrymple states such an approach seeps through society and erodes concepts such as societal norms for behaviour; roles for e.g. parents, teachers in building character; and any notion that members of a society can judge and prescribe the behaviour of others.

Dalrymple's example of depression is apt as he not only remarks on how unhappiness is treated, but he believes one of the root causes of such unhappiness is the belief that life should be better but to make it so is out of our control.
 
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I wrote a while ago about the shift from overly medicalised explanations in the sixties and seventies to a more responsible-orientated position in the eighties and nineties. If the over-reliance on external factors was present in the seventies could be blamed ona culture of structuralism and welfare etc., the shift in the eighties wasn't so much a re-balance of common sense as many like to see it, but merely the predominance of a Reaganish personal responsibility for everything approach, that was no blinkered than the other. Truth lies in between I guess.
 

SevenStars

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I wrote a while ago about the shift from overly medicalised explanations in the sixties and seventies to a more responsible-orientated position in the eighties and nineties. If the over-reliance on external factors was present in the seventies could be blamed ona culture of structuralism and welfare etc., the shift in the eighties wasn't so much a re-balance of common sense as many like to see it, but merely the predominance of a Reaganish personal responsibility for everything approach, that was no blinkered than the other. Truth lies in between I guess.
Have we though?

Those on drugs like Ritalin, etc have soared since the 90s.

Neo-Conservatism is the worst of both right and left.
 
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