Ivor Callely is suspended by FF and multiple inquiries launched into his expenses

cricket

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Maybe it's the cynic in me , but I suspect there is something hot on today's " Oirish " Mail on Sunday. I haven't seen it , but both " It says in the papers " and the Marian Finnucane show skipped over the coverage by simply naming Callelly and the word " expenses ". I'd say the fear of legal action might have prevented them going any further. For God's sake , let no one here walk this site into trouble by repeating whatever is on it. I couldn't bring myself to buy that paper and haven't been near anyplace where I might sneak a view.
 


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I'm shocked and stunned! Not! Why did it take a bloody English newspaper to break this story? That's what I'd like to know. Thanks for the link Greengoose.
 

jc_ie

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I'm neither shocked nor stunned.

Seriously, is any one actually surpised by this?

Looks like it might be solid.. I know its the mail and all...
 

rockofcashel

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I'm shocked and stunned! Not! Why did it take a bloody English newspaper to break this story? That's what I'd like to know. Thanks for the link Greengoose.
This is why most of the political class hate the Daily Mail. For all its faults regarding it's political ideology, it's not afraid to cut right to the bone regarding stories. Well done to it.

It might be worth remembering here, that this would have been known at the very least during the investigation into Callely, but yet he still remains a member of Fianna Fáil.

Why ?
 

LeDroit

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Oh oh Senator. There's a fat lady warming up her vocal cords.

(No cheap shots here about my former leader!)

Is there a way of impeaching a sitting Senator or TD?
 

jc_ie

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Did Bertie check up every tree in North Dublin when he appointed this guy?
 

sandar

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the thingw itht he irish daily mail, is that in common with most start ups it has to do something different to what the exisiting players in the market are doing, and the IDS certainly does that.
 
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I wonder what an investigation including all deputies' expense claims would unveil? Apart from enriching another shower of lawyers I mean, or another set of well placed and pleased hacks? I hate that man. I hate all thieves. And liars. And hypocrites. When I think of the work.......never mind..
 

Franzoni

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I reckon Clowen is just loving waking up to this ..... just when the FF spin machine was going into overdrive on the economy turning the corner and the 'lets all be positive' vibes and then we have Ivor undoing all their best efforts..:p...if i was in FG or Labour etc...i would try to leave him where he is....;)....
 

flavirostris

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Callely's greatest sin in the eyes of FF'ers ( some of whom have been calling for his expulsion ) is to have been caught, which makes them look bad as a party.
 

Sync

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/MOD/ "Forged" documents were used to claim almost 3000 euro in Oireachtas expenses by a named member of FF according to Luke Byrne in the Mail of Sunday lead story today.

There is no way of knowing from the story who generated the documents. It is entirely possible that they were innocently relied upon by the member concerned. The Mail on Sunday have not alleged a crime has been committed by any specified individual, and discussion here should reflect that.
/MOD/
 

GJG

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Never thought I'd say it but hats off to the Daily Oncologist, sorry Daily Mail.

I despise their negative tone in particular, but this story is dynamite. If the gardaí are waiting for clearer evidence of criminal wrongdoing to begin investigating a fraud, they won't find it in this lifetime.
 

GJG

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/MOD/ "Forged" documents were used to claim almost 3000 euro in Oireachtas expenses by a named member of FF according to Luke Byrne in the Mail of Sunday lead story today.

There is no way of knowing from the story who generated the documents. It is entirely possible that they were innocently relied upon by the member concerned. The Mail on Sunday have not alleged any crime has been committed by any specific individual, and discussion here should reflect that.
/MOD/
That's a fair point, but the story contains clear evidence of a determined criminal fraud, whoever committed it. Any garda commander who says "It's not up to us" to investigate deserves to be sacked.
 

Mushroom

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I reckon Clowen is just loving waking up to this ..... just when the FF spin machine was going into overdrive on the economy turning the corner and the 'lets all be positive' vibes and then we have Ivor undoing all their best efforts..:p...if i was in FG or Labour etc...i would try to leave him where he is....;)....

This looks like a great opportunity for some further ethical showboating from the Green Ferrets. Has Danny Boil tweeted his concens yet?
 

Sync

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That's a fair point, but the story contains clear evidence of a determined criminal fraud, whoever committed it. Any garda commander who says "It's not up to us" to investigate deserves to be sacked.
Absolutely, and if the article's is correct then there's certainly a large amount of evidence of wrongdoing. Who committed that wrongdoing is totally unknown at this point though.
 

Nipper

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Absolutely, and if the article's is correct then there's certainly a large amount of evidence of wrongdoing. Who committed that wrongdoing is totally unknown at this point though.

What is known is who benifited.
 

Franzoni

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This looks like a great opportunity for some further ethical showboating from the Green Ferrets. Has Danny Boil tweeted his concens yet?
I'm one of those neanderthals who can barely turn on a computer never mind figure out how to follow tweets....:p i'll leave the following of tweets up to some of the more techically advanced people here..:)

but i agree if this turns out to be true it will be interesting to see how FF deal with it and how the greens spin it so they can sweep it under the carpet...i don't think Gormely and Co would know how to spell the word ethics anymore even if it bit them in the posterior.....
 

Tomas Mor

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/MOD/ "Forged" documents were used to claim almost 3000 euro in Oireachtas expenses by a named member of FF according to Luke Byrne in the Mail of Sunday lead story today.

There is no way of knowing from the story who generated the documents. It is entirely possible that they were innocently relied upon by the member concerned. The Mail on Sunday have not alleged a crime has been committed by any specified individual, and discussion here should reflect that.
/MOD/
You are being unnecessarily cautious and holding back. A prima facie case has been made for a Garda fraud squad investigation,and thats not libel.
 

teapot

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Absolutely, and if the article's is correct then there's certainly a large amount of evidence of wrongdoing. Who committed that wrongdoing is totally unknown at this point though.
In most legal systems invoices, or receipts, or bills, or whatever, if they are as stated, that is 'signed' by a fictitious person, or one whose signature had been fabricated then they become 'forged documents' This applies even if they were genuine ones which had been altered in some relevant way so as to change the original intent, and for a criminal purpose. The minute any such document arrives at the intended recipient it has been 'uttered'. The criminal offence is complete, there is no 'attempted uttering' since the crime is to attempt to cause the person or persons to act on it as if it were genuine...and that has been done at that point. You would need evidence as to how the document is forged; evidence as to who received it - and evidence as to who uttered it. Basically - case complete. If there is also evidence that the utterer received anything because of it or benefitted because of it then that is additional evidence to corroborate the criminal act of uttering. If there is evidence that the utterer was the person actually 'making' the forged document then that is extra (and very good) corroboration. Any semi-trained detective who has access to Search Warrants etc., could easily investigate such a case and any semi-trained lawyer ought to be able to easily prosecute it successfully. Any average jury ought to convict such an utterer.
 


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