Jack Charlton Passes Away

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Name one player Jack promoted from the underage setup?
Off the top of my head, Steve Staunton, Alan Kelly and Gary Kelly - but I'm sure there were others.

He did a lot of good things, but nurturing youth was not one of them. You got in on the basis of club football, preferably English club football, only.
His job was to pick the best team available. At the time we had lots of players playing regularly for top clubs in England, if as a young player you wanted to get into the international team, it was up to you to show via club football that you were at least as good as those you sought to replace.
 


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My playing days were odd. I grew up quickly and reached my current height by around the age of twelve. I was so much taller than my teammates that I was ushered into goal. Once I stopped growing and others caught up with me I moved outfield. Centre forward. I was a one trick pony. I was very quick across the ground and quick to read a situation. I lacked a lot of other things. I wasn't very physical and could be easily shouldered off the ball. It was all about speed and reading. I scored a hell of a lot of goals. I had the benefit in school of two wingers who went on to play League of Ireland. There was an alchemy. They both knew how to find a space for me behind the defence.

Schmeichel was a very interesting goalie. It was obvious that he had studied other sports. His star jump came directly from Olympic Handball. He selected practices used elsewhere. However, I don't think that the neon idea is good. When I was running onto a pass and things were happening at pace, the main thing I needed to know was where the 'keeper was, and - by extension - where he wasn(t. I needed to know whether he was preparing to close me down or stand his ground. I needed to know his position and whether he was offering one side of the goal. All data was gratefully received.
But by the sound of your first paragraph, not always that well processed........
 

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Irwin and Kenna were 25 on their debut. Quinn and Kelly 20. Keane, Staunton Kennedy 19.

All were established top flight players, so I think you missed my point. Nobodt got bumped from the underage structure on the basis of their performance there.
The logic was that if they were good enough, they'd come through via their clubs, which all those named above did, as well as playing underage internationals. And if they weren't good enough, they were no great loss.

International football is about winning - not about giving everyone a game.
 

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Jack Charlton wasn't just a football manager. He was a symbol of some of the big changes Ireland went on to experience as a nation and in some ways could even have been said to be the herald of what was to come, inadvertently perhaps but still. That we could welcome one of the 'old enemy*' as our own and even make him an honorary Irish person spoke volumes. Everybody loved big Jack. Down to earth and normal sometimes, large, looming, aggressive and outspoken as well.

Met the guy once, some character. He was giving a talk at a local football club in the 90s and he had this wonderful blend of cranky and charisma about him and gave us some laughs. He'd bark at people in a way that they took no offence to it and could take the odd snark back with a devious grin. I liked him, as a person.

So by all means, throw yet another little strop, nobody cares.

*(I mean this in soccer terms, because to this day, no matter how good Anglo-Irish relations get, we'll never get sick of any opportunity to stick it to them, sports wise.... ;))
I was at a Q&A that he did in spring 1994. I asked him if, given that Bonner was struggling to get a game at Celtic while Alan Kelly was doing well at Blackburn, was there any chance he'd change keepers for the World Cup. His reply was that Bonner had never let him down, and as long as that was the case he'd continue to pick him.

Boy, did I remember than when watching the Holland game in Orlando.....
 

carlovian

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Don’t forget to wear green tomorrow, Tuesday to show support for the man on the day of his funeral.
 

Buchaill Dana

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The logic was that if they were good enough, they'd come through via their clubs, which all those named above did, as well as playing underage internationals. And if they weren't good enough, they were no great loss.

International football is about winning - not about giving everyone a game.
Not the point I was making
 

Buchaill Dana

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Off the top of my head, Steve Staunton, Alan Kelly and Gary Kelly - but I'm sure there were others.


His job was to pick the best team available. At the time we had lots of players playing regularly for top clubs in England, if as a young player you wanted to get into the international team, it was up to you to show via club football that you were at least as good as those you sought to replace.
Staunton and Gary Kelly had played U21, but they were picked on the basis of club play. Alan Kelly was 25 when he made his debut and was not part of the U18/U21 setup.

Most managers consider part of their job to bring youth through. That was definitely not a Charlton strength.

Very few players under the age of 23 played for Charlton. Thats all.
 

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Staunton and Gary Kelly had played U21, but they were picked on the basis of club play. Alan Kelly was 25 when he made his debut and was not part of the U18/U21 setup.

Most managers consider part of their job to bring youth through. That was definitely not a Charlton strength.

Very few players under the age of 23 played for Charlton. Thats all.
It wasn't part of his job to bring youth through. His job was to pick the best team. But he obviously picked young players if he thought they were good enough, if you think back there was never any great campaign to bring player X, Y Z through, which was rebuffed by Charlton. He had no problem putting the likes of Staunton, Gary Kelly, Babb and others straight into the team for big games, when it was often arguable that a more experienced player would be more suited to high-stakes games. For example he picked Staunton over Chris Hughton at Italia 90, Babb ahead of Kernaghan and Moran in USA 94. In that respect he was a bit like Declan Kidney.
 

CatullusV

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But by the sound of your first paragraph, not always that well processed........
No. It was an odd thing. For one thing I could never head the ball. Not to save my life. Forget about adding speed to the thing, I couldn't even direct it. I was literally no use in the air. There were some good forwards already in the underage teams - less each year - and I moved outfield to replace their loss one year. I played for the school and for Cherry Orchard for a couple of seasons. Lots of fun. The coach would tell us that there were scouts on the sideline. Yup. There were. Always there. Always, though, following one or two well-identified targets. Still, it made you up your game. The players who were really being watched knew full well who they were.

I was better running on to the ball than with the ball at my feet, but useless under an attacking corner. I needed the ball on the ground. I also lacked power in kicking. At one stage, teammates would take my goal kicks. Big offside risk there. That was a good reason to get me out of goal in itself.

But I had good reflexes and speed. That's all I had.

A contradictory career in youth soccer. Then I did it all again in hockey as an adult, moving from between the posts to front and centre. My justification in the latter event was that I'd seen more goals scored and how they are scored than most of my team!
 

caledhel

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Go ndeana Dia grasta ar a anam dílis.
 

AhNowStop

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No. It was an odd thing. For one thing I could never head the ball. Not to save my life. Forget about adding speed to the thing, I couldn't even direct it. I was literally no use in the air. There were some good forwards already in the underage teams - less each year - and I moved outfield to replace their loss one year. I played for the school and for Cherry Orchard for a couple of seasons. Lots of fun. The coach would tell us that there were scouts on the sideline. Yup. There were. Always there. Always, though, following one or two well-identified targets. Still, it made you up your game. The players who were really being watched knew full well who they were.

I was better running on to the ball than with the ball at my feet, but useless under an attacking corner. I needed the ball on the ground. I also lacked power in kicking. At one stage, teammates would take my goal kicks. Big offside risk there. That was a good reason to get me out of goal in itself.

But I had good reflexes and speed. That's all I had.

A contradictory career in youth soccer. Then I did it all again in hockey as an adult, moving from between the posts to front and centre. My justification in the latter event was that I'd seen more goals scored and how they are scored than most of my team!
Jaysus did ye ever get a game at all? :oops: :confused: 😂
 

CatullusV

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Jaysus did ye ever get a game at all? :oops: :confused: 😂
The odd thing is that I was never dropped. I was very quick and a good finisher, but had no defence to any physicality. Absolutely none. An absolutely fair shoulder charge or any form of barge and I was taken out. All I could do was run into space. Any effort at a header would look like a back pass. Still, I had very good players around me who made me look good.
 

CatullusV

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I'm starting to think I played against you..... ;)
It wouldn't have needed a shoulder. A tiny nudge of the elbow would do for me.

One thing I've noticed is how some skills transfer across sports. I've mentioned Schmeicel and his star jump. If you look at a hockey penalty shootout every single player uses the Cruyff Turn. They drag the ball into the D and then turn their back to goal in order to shield it in preparation for their shot. The great man had an influence beyond his own sport.
 

AhNowStop

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The odd thing is that I was never dropped. I was very quick and a good finisher, but had no defence to any physicality. Absolutely none. An absolutely fair shoulder charge or any form of barge and I was taken out. All I could do was run into space. Any effort at a header would look like a back pass. Still, I had very good players around me who made me look good.
LMFAO .. You must have been bloody quick ..

Here, are you 100% sure you weren't the ref :unsure: :confused: 😂
 

AhNowStop

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It wouldn't have needed a shoulder. A tiny nudge of the elbow would do for me.

One thing I've noticed is how some skills transfer across sports. I've mentioned Schmeicel and his star jump. If you look at a hockey penalty shootout every single player uses the Cruyff Turn. They drag the ball into the D and then turn their back to goal in order to shield it in preparation for their shot. The great man had an influence beyond his own sport.
LMFAO 😂

Im on the fuking floor here 😂😂😂😂😂😂
 


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