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Herr Rommel

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I'm sure Hitchcock will be along to tell us how inhuman we are for wanting to keep this savage out of Ireland.
 

ruserious

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But he is an Irish citizen?
Correct. Should he get as far as the Irish border, he can not be refused entry as a citizen. However the Minister may refuse to issue a passport to a citizen if he feels it would go against public policy/national security. So nobody denies he is a citizen, nor that he is entitled to enter the country should he get as far as the border but the Minister may refuse to issue a passport under certain conditions.

Now I fully suspect it would be difficult for him to get to Ireland without a passport.
 

jmcc

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Now I fully suspect it would be difficult for him to get to Ireland without a passport.
Tens of thousands have claimed to have done so and been believed by a gullible judiciary and media spivs on the make. :)
 

Mick Mac

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How are we going to stop him?
Well if we could from the first determine whether this is a situation where the law as is is creating an undesired outcome we could then decide whether there was something that could be done and how it would be achieved.

Clearly having this extreme bigot is not a win for us and certainly not a win for Irish women.

The distinction between him and other citizens is born a citizen versus claimed his citizenship. Would we want to go down the route of allowing the latter be revocable?

If we could even get some consensus that this guy is a an extremist misogynistic fascist that might be the best victory we can get.

All of us bar the few compromised by getting the few bob should be able to agree this guy is an extreme misogynist willing to kill for that belief.

Now that's worth a letter to the times at least.
 

Mick Mac

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I'm sure Hitchcock will be along to tell us how inhuman we are for wanting to keep this savage out of Ireland.
I'll give a few bob to change his principles.
 

Happycamping

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Correct. Should he get as far as the Irish border, he can not be refused entry as a citizen. However the Minister may refuse to issue a passport to a citizen if he feels it would go against public policy/national security. So nobody denies he is a citizen, nor that he is entitled to enter the country should he get as far as the border but the Minister may refuse to issue a passport under certain conditions.

Now I fully suspect it would be difficult for him to get to Ireland without a passport.
Does he currently have any passport?
 

gijoe

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If Anders Breivik had a long lost Irish granny it would be raining down with people and groups opposing his passport application with death threats to boot.......but if its an Islamist terrorist......sher the more the merrier.......
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Correct. Should he get as far as the Irish border, he can not be refused entry as a citizen. However the Minister may refuse to issue a passport to a citizen if he feels it would go against public policy/national security. So nobody denies he is a citizen, nor that he is entitled to enter the country should he get as far as the border but the Minister may refuse to issue a passport under certain conditions.

Now I fully suspect it would be difficult for him to get to Ireland without a passport.
Can't see that happening. So long as he's a citizen he has a constitutional right to be admitted to Ireland and, at least for now, also freedom of movement within the EU. Now, as for travel onward, that's another matter regarding a passport.
 

ne0ica

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Will he even be allowed leave the US if he is on parole?

I thought this was messed up kid who got lost along the way. Sadly it appears he is unrepentant.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Would a change in the law might prevent this bollix from coming here.
Any suggestions?
The problem here is retroactivity with those suggestions. His Taliban conduct and his acquisition of Irish citizenship through entitlement by descent will predate any such change, if any.

Here's the way for now IMO as to crapbags like him:

At his sentencing, aged 21, Lindh told the judge that, “I condemn terrorism on every level — unequivocally.” Adding that, “My beliefs about jihad are those of mainstream Muslims around the world.”

However a National Counterterrorism Center report concluded, “As of May 2016, John Walker Lindh (USPER) — who is scheduled to be released in May 2019 after being convicted of supporting the Taliban — continued to advocate for global jihad and to write and translate violent extremist texts.”
American Taliban fighter plans to move to Ireland on release - IrishCentral

Stripping citizens of citizenship when they join hostile movements to the Irish or fellow EU states is something I support. I'm in full agreement with this US District Court on the following that should be applied to Irish citizenship as I've done in brackets here: "We can think of no conduct more repugnant to an intent to retain [Irish] citizenship or more demonstrative of an intent to relinquish [Irish] citizenship than voluntary service in the armed forces of a country at war with [Ireland]. . . . [O]ther than perhaps in the circumstance of a civil war, it is inconceivable to us that a person could wage war against a country in which he intends to maintain citizenship."
United States v. Schiffer
Phila.-born Nazi guard is deported Nikolaus Schiffer, 82, who said he was not actively involved in the Holocaust, was sent to Romania. - Philly.com

The US foolishly IMO has left this turd with US citizenship. Therein lies Ireland's chance. There's some international treaties and principles out there that don't approve of leaving someone stateless, but like Schiffer above, Lindh has dual citizenship, so he could have his Irish citizenship stripped if he so much as poses a hostile agitator to the Irish state with Islamist militant activities.

We can and should also have legislation that puts dangerous Islamists in the dock and behind bars permanently.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Will he even be allowed leave the US if he is on parole?

I thought this was messed up kid who got lost along the way. Sadly it appears he is unrepentant.
Indeed, "Abu Sulayman al-Irlandi" as this maggot fancies himself now is not a reformed fella.

That said, there's no parole for federal crimes. There is, however, a thing called 'supervised release', and from checking his sentences, he'll have to do some time on that: "Upon release from confinement, defendant must serve three (3) years of supervised release as to each count, these terms to run concurrently with one another."
United States v. Lindh, 227 F. Supp. 2d 565 (E.D. Va. 2002)

People serving American sentences on the street can leave the country by having or obtaining permission. If and when allowed to travel, then it's up to destination nations to make the call to admit them under their own laws and discretion.

US law prevents renunciation of US citizenship whilst in the US, so Lindh can't use that method to get himself deported to Ireland. US law requires US citizens to leave and enter the US on their US passport, even if possessing other citizenship.

That might be a way he can be kept out. That depends on US law and actions, though, not Ireland's. There's also the issue of the US using those rules to prevent him from ever going to Ireland on a direct flight where he's also entitled to be. It would make for some interesting legal wrangling. You'd also have to get Trump & Co to go along with keeping him, and there's decent odds that they'd rather pass the turd to Ireland given the 'MAGA/America First' stuff.
 

Mick Mac

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Indeed, "Abu Sulayman al-Irlandi" as this maggot fancies himself now is not a reformed fella.

That said, there's no parole for federal crimes. There is, however, a thing called 'supervised release', and from checking his sentences, he'll have to do some time on that: "Upon release from confinement, defendant must serve three (3) years of supervised release as to each count, these terms to run concurrently with one another."
United States v. Lindh, 227 F. Supp. 2d 565 (E.D. Va. 2002)

People serving American sentences on the street can leave the country by having or obtaining permission. If and when allowed to travel, then it's up to destination nations to make the call to admit them under their own laws and discretion.

US law prevents renunciation of US citizenship whilst in the US, so Lindh can't use that method to get himself deported to Ireland. US law requires US citizens to leave and enter the US on their US passport, even if possessing other citizenship.

That might be a way he can be kept out. That depends on US law and actions, though, not Ireland's. There's also the issue of the US using those rules to prevent him from ever going to Ireland on a direct flight where he's also entitled to be. It would make for some interesting legal wrangling. You'd also have to get Trump & Co to go along with keeping him, and there's decent odds that they'd rather pass the turd to Ireland given the 'MAGA/America First' stuff.
Could you blame them for being tempted to leave the Fascist turd go. It's not like we won't do the same one day.

Bar a few people who are willing to take his money for the purposes of a fair immigration system (and not for personal gain of course) but self same personal gainers will be to the forefront of defending the rights of citizen of the Republic John Walker Lindh against the prejudiced masses.

Yes, white cis male John has now a rarefied species by being willing to die for the men who helped build what was before ISIS the most misogynistic statelet in the world. Yet all that's not now because it's an issue of immigration and rights ( and personal gain).
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Could you blame them for being tempted to leave the Fascist turd go. It's not like we won't do the same one day.
Tempted? Of course. He's an Islamist jihadist threat and scumbag. Should they punt him to Ireland if preventable, though? No. That's because the US has far better ability to monitor and remove him as a threat if he acts the maggot.

Bar a few people who are willing to take his money for the purposes of a fair immigration system (and not for personal gain of course) but self same personal gainers will be to the forefront of defending the rights of citizen of the Republic John Walker Lindh against the prejudiced masses.

Yes, white cis male John has now a rarefied species by being willing to die for the men who helped build what was before ISIS the most misogynistic statelet in the world. Yet all that's not now because it's an issue of immigration and rights ( and personal gain).
Whilst our domestic and EU laws should be reformed to prevent Islamists and especially jihadists from entering and/or settling amongst us, this situation involves an Irish citizen. Citizens aren't immigrants by definition, so a different approach needs to be taken.

As stated above, I favour deeming anyone in a state of belligerency against the Irish state as having forfeited their Irish citizenship. As the Schiffer case I cited aptly held IMO: "[O]ther than perhaps in the circumstance of a civil war, it is inconceivable to us that a person could wage war against a country in which he intends to maintain citizenship." As the sentencing court in United States v. Lindh further held as linked above:
To those who claim that defendant was merely fighting for something that he believed in, it is well to remember, as the Court advised defendant at sentencing, that there is no virtue in fighting for a belief unless that belief is itself virtuous. As defendant now recognizes, the Taliban and its animating ideas were far from virtuous. Importantly, it is also true that defendant did not seek to walk away from the front line or the Taliban after learning that the United States was fighting in Afghanistan and might be threatened by Usama bin Laden and al Qaeda. According to defendant, he might have been killed had he attempted to leave. This rationalization reflects, as the Court stated in the course of sentencing, that it appears defendant was willing to give his life for the Taliban, but not for his country.
United States v. Lindh, 227 F. Supp. 2d 565 (E.D. Va. 2002) (emphasis added)
We simply need to be ready and have laws in place to remove his Irish citizenship upon any activity that's hostile to us on behalf of our belligerent enemies.

I most certainly would oppose anything like this that PM Justin Trudeau practices in Canada regarding domestic enemies of the state and people amongst them:
Justin believes terrorists should keep their Canadian citizenship - YouTube
As for the 'hug a thug' types, they're a loud minority IMO and that's where the silent majority needs to hold the system to account.
 

Wendy Lyon

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Jul 2, 2017
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His own solicitor gave the solution

Lyon said: “An Irish passport can be refused where the person is a threat to public safety or security. But they’re still an Irish citizen - just one who is not permitted to hold an Irish passport. Such cases are extremely rare.”
I'm not his solicitor.
 

james toney

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'John Walker Lindh, the California man who became known as the "American Taliban" after his capture on an Afghanistan battlefield in late 2001, released from prison after 17 years.

 

Beachcomber

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Someone posted earlier that we can prevent him from being issued with an Irish passport.

Tough flying in without one.

Very true.

I'd assume that the US has him on no-fly lists, so he wouldn't be able to fly out of the US, even if he has a US passport, or an ROI one.

SFAIK he isn't allowed to leave the US as part of the terms of his release. If that restriction is eventually removed then he could maybe try the Canadian route - travel by land into Canada, and then try to fly out of Canada to the ROI.

The best thing would be for both the US and the ROI to refuse to issue a passport to him, even though he'd be a citizen of both countries. Then he couldn't go anywhere.
 

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