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Jamie Bulger Killer back in jail


beanie

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'orebel

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They had seven years (I think) to rehabilitate an eleven year old kid and couldn't manage it. Doesn't say much for the rehabilitation arguement
 

Pat Mc Larnon

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At the time of the Bulger murder there was a very similar case in Norway. I believe that the Norwegians took a very different approach and the boys involved did not go through the judicial proccess but were returned to their class almost immediately, although under the supervision of a psychologist. In terms of rehabilitation they thought, because they were minors, that was the road to go down. There is some detail on that case here.
 
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Iarmhi Gael

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Iarmhi, no disrespect to you or your child(ren) but I can remember being very young and knowing the difference between right and wrong

I was witness to conversations to children of a similar age stating that they could commit a murder and 'get away' with it

While we all like to think of Children as being angels they are capable of dark thoughts, all a parent can do is educate them morally

as boss hawg stated: 'there are some men, ya just cant reach'

that's why more progressive societies have a Death Penalty
A 10 year old Benny....

I'm no member of the PC brigade - but a 10 year old knows little
 

TheTipperaryMan

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I'm no member of the PC brigade - but a 10 year old knows little
A ten year old can understand concepts like suffering, death, good and evil.

Genetics and environment produce killers like Venables.

Not all kids with genes that gives them a predisposition to violence or who have had appalling violent upbringings turn into killers but some do and Venables is one of them.

Sadistic psychopathic behaviour manifests itself from an early age - Ted Bundy for instance is believed to have begun his murderous career as a young boy.

Venables and Thompson were acting out a violent fantasy when they murdered Bulger.
It excited them and they enjoyed it.

I have no doubt that Venables would kill again and is still a danger to society.

Monsters like that should not be free to walk the streets masquerading as a human beings.

These creatures are perfectly capable of mimicking human emotions and convincing the unsuspecting that they are normal.
 

imokyrok

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They had seven years (I think) to rehabilitate an eleven year old kid and couldn't manage it. Doesn't say much for the rehabilitation arguement
I think much depends on whether or not the child is a sociopath. If he is it is highly unlikely rehabilitation will have much impact. The most one could hope for would be training the individual to sublimate his more violent tendencies in order to avoid punishment. I'd need to know more about the nature of the parole violation to make a judgement and would be fascinated to learn more about the Norwegian case Pat. The Scandinavians seem to be so much more progressive and innovative in such matters. Well all matters really.
 

beanie

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Daily Mail James Bulger killer Jon Venables returned to prison | Mail Online
No one knows yet what he has done.
Home Secretary Alan Johnson also refused to reveal the reasons this morning......Asked if he was concerned about Venables' early release, he added: 'There has to be a process here and that is what has gone on. Jon Venables was only released on the basis of very strict licence conditions, those licence conditions have been breached and he is back in custody
Licence terms were:When Jon Venables and Robert Thompson were released in 2001, their parole was subject to strict conditions:
They were ordered to end contact with each other;
They could not contact or attempt to contact any member of the Bulger family;

The killers were not allowed to enter the metropolitan County of Merseyside without the prior written consent of their probation officers;
If their behaviour deteriorated or they started using drugs they could be sent back to prison;
If they are jailed again, they could face a life sentence.


Also
Albert Kirby, who headed the Bulger investigation, said he had spoken to Denise and that the news had brought 'a whole load of anxiety' back to her..........
He suggested it was unlikely a minor infringement had ended Venables' freedom, given the huge effort made to create a new life for him.
 
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adamirer

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A 10 year old Benny....

I'm no member of the PC brigade - but a 10 year old knows little
You can certainly know right and wrong, but can you properly appreciate the seriousness and consequences of what you've done - beyond being scared of getting caught?
 

beanie

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You can certainly know right and wrong, but can you properly appreciate the seriousness and consequences of what you've done - beyond being scared of getting caught?
Even if they didn't know what they were doing was wrong, they clearly showed that they had no sense of compassion. They didn't stop when he cried/screamed/bleed.
 

imokyrok

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Even if they didn't know what they were doing was wrong, they clearly showed that they had no sense of compassion. They didn't stop when he cried/screamed/bleed.
Violence is ten a penny beanie. Few violent people stop when their victim cries, bleeds, scream. The 1 in 7 women who are victims of serious domestic violence will tell you that. Maybe we should give up on every violent offender but we'd end up with incarceration rates like the US where 1 in every 100 adults is sitting in a prison cell. Think about the implications of that for society. All those children with no father figures and the exposure to the concept that prison is a normal part of lifes experience. I know the Bolger crime brings out the flog 'em and hang 'em in all of us especially parents but if we don't at least strive for rehabilitation we end of with societies like the worst of the US and thats not a route I want to see us go down.
 

katy brock

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A 10 year old Benny....

I'm no member of the PC brigade - but a 10 year old knows little
No disrespect to you intended, IG, we were all ten years old once, we knew little, sure: but a normal (even a subnormal) ten year old doesn't deliberately lure a two year child away from it's mother and smash it's head in with a block. Those two lads are evil. And they'll get worse.:(
 

jmayo

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neither of those animals should have been released

wishy washy pinkos that believe in rehabilitation have a lot to answer for

evil does exist as does a cure....
Yeah what rehabilitation did Jamie Bulger get or for that matter his family ?

The UK is a mess socially with all the unsocial behaviour and we are headed the same way.

Now I not saying that he offended to anything like the same degree, but he must have done something for the British system to yank him back in.

A 10 year old Benny....

I'm no member of the PC brigade - but a 10 year old knows little
That is a cop out.
Nobody is ever f***ing responsible anymore and there is always some excuse. :mad:

My 6 year old nephew can tell the difference between being nice to someone and inflicting pain.
If a kid gets a kick out of inflicting severe pain on some other creature then warning bells should be sounding.
I do believe in second chances, but not for those that display such acts of savagery.

10 year old kids can tell right from wrong, if they have had any type of upbringing.
These kids were going to school, they didn't just exist in some isolation cell where they knew no different thanks to their parents.
Yes the parents have a lot to answer and I believe they should be held responsible to a degree for the their chidlrens' behaviour.

I am tired of the mindset where the perps are seen as victims.
What about the real victims of crime, you know the ones that are murdered, maimed for life, the families of the victims ?

EDIT:
was there not another case recently where two boys were set upon and the offenders only stopped beating one of them becasue his arm got tired ?

An example needs to be made of these and their parents.
 

imokyrok

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No disrespect to you intended, IG, we were all ten years old once, we knew little, sure: but a normal (even a subnormal) ten year old doesn't deliberately lure a two year child away from it's mother and smash it's head in with a block. Those two lads are evil. And they'll get worse.:(
I think you are probably correct about these guys. But it is also true to day that empathy is not a characteristic that all children acquire at the same time. Many a person will tell you looking back at their teens that they were a horrible bully who made life miserable for some people, a fact for which they are totally ashamed in maturity. Boys commonly torture animals especially "lower" life forms like insects and frogs etc and yet go one to be caring decent people. It is important to give people a chance don't you think? In this case the parole system seems to have worked in that as soon as it became apparent the boy is still a danger he is back in prison. Hopefully since the other boy is now in a relationship their are signs that the rehabilitation worked in his case.
 

TheTipperaryMan

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I know the Bolger crime brings out the flog 'em and hang 'em in all of us especially parents but if we don't at least strive for rehabilitation we end of with societies like the worst of the US and thats not a route I want to see us go down.
What else can you do with violent people?

A guy who repeatedly batters his wife or girlfriend or whacks his kids or beats up his boss or co-workers or regularly brawls in clubs or pubs, needs some prison time to make him think twice about doing it again.

A career criminal who uses brutal violence needs to be locked up for longer.

A person who actually takes sadistic pleasure from violence cannot be rehabilitated.

Society needs to be protected from animals like that.

When you behave like that you need to be taken out of circulation. Period.
 

katy brock

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I think you are probably correct about these guys. But it is also true to day that empathy is not a characteristic that all children acquire at the same time. Many a person will tell you looking back at their teens that they were a horrible bully who made life miserable for some people, a fact for which they are totally ashamed in maturity. Boys commonly torture animals especially "lower" life forms like insects and frogs etc and yet go one to be caring decent people. It is important to give people a chance don't you think? In this case the parole system seems to have worked in that as soon as it became apparent the boy is still a danger he is back in prison. Hopefully since the other boy is now in a relationship their are signs that the rehabilitation worked in his case.
I understand what you're saying. Not only have I personally been horrible to people as a child, I've done it as an adult as well.
I regret things faster these days.

But those two are different. It's not like they accindently killed the child in some game that went wrong. The little swine went out of their way to practice evil.

Forgive them because of their age? Sure.

Keep them securely locked up in a nuthouse? Absolutely.
 

sandar

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the terms of his licence include many things which woukld not be actually breaking the law, such as visiting merseyside or contacting the other bulger killer, if those are things he broke then its not relevant to the rehabilitation argument
 

TheTipperaryMan

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the terms of his licence include many things which woukld not be actually breaking the law, such as visiting merseyside or contacting the other bulger killer, if those are things he broke then its not relevant to the rehabilitation argument
Who cares? The guy killed a kid and he was told, warned, adviced etc. if you do A you get B.

He did A so he now gets B.

Tough.
 

ManUnited

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I don't have time today to get into a discussion about terrorists, but can I just say this?

Evil exists.

I've seen it myself.

Not on the level of the killers of baby Jamie, but I've seen it.

Whether it springs from nature or nurture I don't know and don't particularly care.

Sorry if that sounds crude.

Venables and Thompson should be locked up in a secure loony bin with no hope of release.

I'm sure a load of greasy-haired social science graduates will take me to task on this: but you know what?

Stuff 'em!
lock up 10 year olds for life..you don't have to be a greasy haired social science grad to see the troubled mind that idea comes from.
 

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