Jeffrey Epstein politically connected sex offender, seems under prosecuted


O'Sullivan Bere

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The age of consent in most US states is irrelevant, only Florida matters, and the age of consent in Florida is 18.
True.
Let's also keep in mind that in many US states they have what's called 'Romeo and Juliet' restrictions regarding sexual conduct with older juveniles (still under 18 y/o). That means the participants have to be in an age proximity with each other, often 4-5 years maximum difference between the older and the younger one.

Those restrictions are intended to prevent prosecution of age-proximate youths having sexual conduct with each other. Older people having sex with juveniles of secondary/high school age is a much different matter for a myriad of reasons.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Wow!!! Sleepless nights imminent for a lot of paedos. Interesting that NYT and WaPo also backing unsealing of info. They must think a few conservatives caught in web. My understanding of logbook on Lolita Express is that it was top heavy with prominent Dems. Either way, big news!!
Doesn't surprise me at all that the WAPO and NYT want that info. To be fair, the libs/Dems have been getting zero-tolerant about this crap when it comes to their politicians and the cons/GOP should do the same. By analogy, 'dirty cops' aren't cops but criminals. IMO, I couldn't give a toss about any party IDs when it comes to sexual misconduct with underage people....every one of them deserves exposure and serious punishment.

If I ever witnessed known or suspect conduct and most especially of an organised kind like Epstein's, I'd call law enforcement ASAP. That others that knew what was happening did not or took advantage of the situation is beyond inexcusable. Too much has happened with schools and clergy scandals and others, and it's well overdue that the 'connected' in the rich, famous and/or political arenas stop getting a free pass on what's so ultimately disgraceful as conduct like the Epstein scandal. Given how much has been covered up, I'd like as many answers as possible regarding everything that happened.
 

owedtojoy

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Let's keep a few things in mind, though.

For example, Trump said of Epstein in 2002: "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." Epstein’s phone directory from his computer allegedly contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman, and he was regularly reported in the 90s media hanging out frequently with Epstein's Upper East Side palace and Epstein was a regular in turn at Mar-a-Lago. Trump is also implausibly claiming he barely knew him as a telltale that he very much did.

Giuiffre's allegations related to being recruited at Mar-a-Lago, which is again in the news as we speak over the Asian rub-and-tug connections that bask in the sexual sleaze side of the 'lifestyles of the rich and famous' theme. There's also Trump's notorious record for adulterous and licentious behaviours including a special taste preference with the sex industry, e.g., affairs with porn stars and pinups, his cameos in soft porn films, current wife having engaged sexually suggestive modelling, Howard Stern sleazy interviews, etc. He also picked Acosta for his cabinet who is a central cast character in covering up this saga with a sweetheart deal.

Before Trump out-flipped Mitt to his current persona, he was a hard core Clinton-backing envelope-stuffing 'corporate Democrat'. That puts him right into the Epstein scene too.

In sum, Trump had the motive and opportunity to be very much involved in the sleazy Epstein situation. Not saying he was given there's too much covered up to date, but I wouldn't be shocked if he turned out less than blameless in it. That said, I truly hope Trump isn't ultimately implicated in blameworthy conduct in the sordid Epstein matter. It would be such a black mark on the Presidency if that were the case.
It is shocking that an underage employee of Mar-A-Lago was a victim of Epstein and his equally vicious wife. The staff there have a duty of care to young employees - sexual harassment of hotel employees must be common enough in the industry, and surely there is a protocol for it.

Rather than jumping in and looking for Big Name Perpetrators (of which I am sure there are plenty) I would prefer to see a systematic forensic investigation into how Epstein was able to operate with impunity in the playgrounds of America's rich and famous. Like yourself, I suspect it is just a symptom of a deeper level of sexual abuse and sexual licence that has been hidden by the wealth of the people at its core.
 

Wagmore

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Let's keep a few things in mind, though.

For example, Trump said of Epstein in 2002: "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." Epstein’s phone directory from his computer allegedly contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman, and he was regularly reported in the 90s media hanging out frequently with Epstein's Upper East Side palace and Epstein was a regular in turn at Mar-a-Lago. Trump is also implausibly claiming he barely knew him as a telltale that he very much did.

Giuiffre's allegations related to being recruited at Mar-a-Lago, which is again in the news as we speak over the Asian rub-and-tug connections that bask in the sexual sleaze side of the 'lifestyles of the rich and famous' theme. There's also Trump's notorious record for adulterous and licentious behaviours including a special taste preference with the sex industry, e.g., affairs with porn stars and pinups, his cameos in soft porn films, current wife having engaged sexually suggestive modelling, Howard Stern sleazy interviews, etc. He also picked Acosta for his cabinet who is a central cast character in covering up this saga with a sweetheart deal.

Before Trump out-flipped Mitt to his current persona, he was a hard core Clinton-backing envelope-stuffing 'corporate Democrat'. That puts him right into the Epstein scene too.

In sum, Trump had the motive and opportunity to be very much involved in the sleazy Epstein situation. Not saying he was given there's too much covered up to date, but I wouldn't be shocked if he turned out less than blameless in it. That said, I truly hope Trump isn't ultimately implicated in blameworthy conduct in the sordid Epstein matter. It would be such a black mark on the Presidency if that were the case.[/QUOTE

All fair comment and was aware of that quote.Referencing Epstein's underage predelictions is, in my opinion, not the words of someone with anything to hide in the jailbait area. You could argue he's flagging it. If you were Epstein, how would you react to hearing that?-When that sort of temptation is in your eyeline, it can go any way so it could be Trump has a case to answer. Epstein reads like a hardcore predator pig though and, am open to correction, but don't get the same sense with Trump. You are aware that there is another president bigtime implicated in Epstein's antics?
 

Wagmore

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Doesn't surprise me at all that the WAPO and NYT want that info. To be fair, the libs/Dems have been getting zero-tolerant about this crap when it comes to their politicians and the cons/GOP should do the same. By analogy, 'dirty cops' aren't cops but criminals. IMO, I couldn't give a toss about any party IDs when it comes to sexual misconduct with underage people....every one of them deserves exposure and serious punishment.

If I ever witnessed known or suspect conduct and most especially of an organised kind like Epstein's, I'd call law enforcement ASAP. That others that knew what was happening did not or took advantage of the situation is beyond inexcusable. Too much has happened with schools and clergy scandals and others, and it's well overdue that the 'connected' in the rich, famous and/or political arenas stop getting a free pass on what's so ultimately disgraceful as conduct like the Epstein scandal. Given how much has been covered up, I'd like as many answers as possible regarding everything that happened.
Same as. That's what is so bananas about this case. A couple of lower level Law enforcement officials did a heroic job. They say now that they were actively resisted by Dept of Justice officials etc. A major, major cover-up has been perpetrated. That's why I'll be amazed if docs are unsealed. Big heads will roll
 

Wagmore

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Let's keep a few things in mind, though.

For example, Trump said of Epstein in 2002: "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." Epstein’s phone directory from his computer allegedly contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman, and he was regularly reported in the 90s media hanging out frequently with Epstein's Upper East Side palace and Epstein was a regular in turn at Mar-a-Lago. Trump is also implausibly claiming he barely knew him as a telltale that he very much did.

Giuiffre's allegations related to being recruited at Mar-a-Lago, which is again in the news as we speak over the Asian rub-and-tug connections that bask in the sexual sleaze side of the 'lifestyles of the rich and famous' theme. There's also Trump's notorious record for adulterous and licentious behaviours including a special taste preference with the sex industry, e.g., affairs with porn stars and pinups, his cameos in soft porn films, current wife having engaged sexually suggestive modelling, Howard Stern sleazy interviews, etc. He also picked Acosta for his cabinet who is a central cast character in covering up this saga with a sweetheart deal.

Before Trump out-flipped Mitt to his current persona, he was a hard core Clinton-backing envelope-stuffing 'corporate Democrat'. That puts him right into the Epstein scene too.

In sum, Trump had the motive and opportunity to be very much involved in the sleazy Epstein situation. Not saying he was given there's too much covered up to date, but I wouldn't be shocked if he turned out less than blameless in it. That said, I truly hope Trump isn't ultimately implicated in blameworthy conduct in the sordid Epstein matter. It would be such a black mark on the Presidency if that were the case.
Agree with a lot of this but women he knew and ex-lovers mostly don't have predatory things to say about him. They surely would if he was on a par with Epstein
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Same as. That's what is so bananas about this case. A couple of lower level Law enforcement officials did a heroic job. They say now that they were actively resisted by Dept of Justice officials etc. A major, major cover-up has been perpetrated. That's why I'll be amazed if docs are unsealed. Big heads will roll
Indeed, and I also credit the Miami Herald for outing this scandal and most recently also with the Asian madame situation...enough's enough with the tolerance and cover-ups of this kind of wretched conduct when it comes to the connected.

Average Joes like us would be tarred and feathered for it as we should if we did such things, but the saddest part is that too many voters have tolerated the wealthy and/or connected having a one way street with it where they even get to act with impunity and contempt with it and even as a 'social event theme'. Going along with these things like the Epstein and Asian Madame situations is the swamp aspects as an aggravating factor. It's also up to us to assure that we hold public representatives to proper account just as with employers, schools, clergy, etc.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Agree with a lot of this but women he knew and ex-lovers mostly don't have predatory things to say about him. They surely would if he was on a par with Epstein
Many haven't but some have insofar as groping and kissing, etc. Allegations that he intentionally walked into teen beauty pageants to catch them in states of undress--consistent with admissions by him that he deliberately did that in adult beauty pageants under pretext of 'inspections'--disturbs me.
The allegations about Donald Trump and Miss Teen contestants
There's also been this, some of it captured even on video:
Donald Trump appears to have a pattern of trying to charm young girls with a line about dating him.

In a December 1992 wire brief in the Chicago Tribune, Trump is described as having spotted a youth choir singing Christmas carols at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan. He asked two girls how old they were. When they said they were 14, Trump, then 46, replied, “Wow! Just think — in a couple of years, I'll be dating you."

On Wednesday, CBS News reported a similar scenario involving a 10-year-old girl around the same time, when Trump was between his first and second marriages. In footage from the archives of CBS-owned “Entertainment Tonight," Trump asks the child if she is planning to ride the escalator at Trump Tower. After she says yes, Trump turns to cameras taping a Christmas special for the show and says, “I am going to be dating her in 10 years. Can you believe it?”
Donald Trump once told 14-year-old girls, 'In a couple of years, I'll be dating you'

I'm certain you, like me, would pound someone into the pavement if someone that age said something like that to our underage daughters or nieces, etc. That said, there's a critical difference between 'awful but lawful' and breaking laws. I don't believe Trump has any interest in prepubescent children.

IMO, however, he's certainly attracted to well developed and especially precocious teens whether overage or underage. The question is whether or not he'd act illegally on his desires. IMO, I certainly don't believe he has an ethical objection to it but he very well may fear--as he should--legal consequences of doing that and hence try to assure anyone he actually makes a move is at least 18 y/o.

The other issue--and not enough alleged facts exist yet--is whether or not Trump knew what Epstein was doing and bears any culpability in it. For example, the Giuffre civil complaint alleges she was groomed by Epstein's vile wife as a juvenile whilst working at Mar-a-Lago. Her complaint doesn't allege Trump's direct role, if any, but it's early yet to know what was the entire scene there at the time.

One thing seems certain...Epstein ran a swamp culture party scenario that involved sex with underage and/or forced young women and plenty of politicians and swamp creatures were in the midst of that scene, and the Epstein scene goes to high and wide to people like Trump and the Clintons, Prince Andrew, etc. The more we learn and expose about it, the better the public can hold anyone involved in participating, covering it up or knowingly ignoring it accountable and work to end it through public pressure as was done with the clergy, schools, employers and others in influence and positions of power.
 
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O'Sullivan Bere

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It is shocking that an underage employee of Mar-A-Lago was a victim of Epstein and his equally vicious wife. The staff there have a duty of care to young employees - sexual harassment of hotel employees must be common enough in the industry, and surely there is a protocol for it.

Rather than jumping in and looking for Big Name Perpetrators (of which I am sure there are plenty) I would prefer to see a systematic forensic investigation into how Epstein was able to operate with impunity in the playgrounds of America's rich and famous. Like yourself, I suspect it is just a symptom of a deeper level of sexual abuse and sexual licence that has been hidden by the wealth of the people at its core.
Stuff like the Epstein and the Asian madame scandals have always been par for the course with the rich, powerful and connected.

My late paternal grandfather was a patriotic Irishman that served in the flying columns in the WOI and with the anti-treatyites afterwards in the Irish Civil War, but also to his credit, he went to Britain during WWII to participate in the war effort as a middle aged family man because he hated what the Axis Powers stood for and the threats they posed. Given the dangerous job of dealing with unexploded bombs, I recall a story where the British secret service came to one of his scenes to help secure it because the Germans had actually struck a brothel attended by British elites in governance and the peerage. He learned plenty about 'S&M' and 'toys' that day in the rubble hehe.

It's no different anywhere else including the US where call girls, street hookers and brothels and government go hand-in-hand back to the nation's founders, and we've seen plenty of our 'Stephen Ward' types in any Western nations besides elsewhere that handle the sleazy scene of the social and political players.
Stephen Ward - Wikipedia

I've no issue with legalised regulated prostitution as it serves a known demand with better checks for voluntariness, health and safety and removes the criminal element. Epstein and Li Yang, however, involve not only the criminal side of the sex industry but also underage and/or compulsive prostitution as an aggravating factor. Shady setups on the sly from public view and inspection like these also pose an undue nepotism and blackmail risk insofar as honest services in governance by officials.
 
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owedtojoy

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Stuff like the Epstein and the Asian madame scandals have always been par for the course with the rich, powerful and connected.

My late paternal grandfather was a patriotic Irishman that served in the flying columns in the WOI and with the anti-treatyites afterwards in the Irish Civil War, but also to his credit, he went to Britain during WWII to participate in the war effort as a middle aged family man because he hated what the Axis Powers stood for and the threats they posed. Given the dangerous job of dealing with unexploded bombs, I recall a story where the British secret service came to one of his scenes to help secure it because the Germans had actually struck a brothel attended by British elites in governance and the peerage. He learned plenty about 'S&M' and 'toys' that day in the rubble hehe.

It's no different anywhere else including the US where call girls, street hookers and brothels and government go hand-in-hand back to the nation's founders, and we've seen plenty of our 'Stephen Ward' types in any Western nations besides elsewhere that handle the sleazy scene of the social and political players.
Stephen Ward - Wikipedia

I've no issue with legalised regulated prostitution as it serves a known demand with better checks for voluntariness, health and safety and removes the criminal element. Epstein and Li Yang, however, involve not only the criminal side of the sex industry but also underage and/or compulsive prostitution as an aggravating factor. Shady setups on the sly from public view and inspection like these also pose an undue nepotism and blackmail risk insofar as honest services in governance by officials.
I have little doubt that a whole world of sexual exploitation has been hiding in plain sight ... at its "top end" you have women like Stormy Daniels or Karen McDougal, who become trophy mistresses and gain access (at least for a while) to a world of private jets and luxury mansions.

At its other (seamier) side, there are young vulnerable women whose heads are easily turned by the promise of the lifestyle of the 1% No doubt there are some women who parlay their wits and good looks into a comfortable life, but there must be others who fall into a pit of misery, exploitation and drugs. These can end up like Ms Yang's trafficked women, providing sex by the hour in daytime spas, massage parlours and brothels.

Epstein got off virtually scot-free - we can just hope that is put right, and no guilty person goes unpunished.
 
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