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Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
22
Libero said:
If you want to do that, fine. I won't stop you. Just let's not pretend that qtman was ever misleading people. He was right: it is almost unknown in Western democracies for elected reps to lose their seats short of imprisonment or recall by the electorate.
I still think he is misleading. If we agree that public reps have decided to resign they're seat and have been sacked by they're party as a result of personal misconduct then clearly it is not unknown for people to lose they're seats. Their are some who fight to retain it and suffer the consequences but people do lose their seats as a result of personal misconduct. This country above all should set the standards higher when it comes to drink and in my opinion PR's should automatically be suspended for a drink driving offence as soon as guilt is admitted, irrespective of whether PR's in european democracies automatically lose they're seat as a result of drink driving I think Ireland has an issue with drink separate from any country on the planet.
The drink problem is worsening on our streets every weekend and this ambiguity and flippant approach by our politicians will do us no good I'm afraid.
 

Libero

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May 22, 2004
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2,994
brownenvelopes said:
I still think he is misleading. If we agree that public reps have decided to resign they're seat and have been sacked by they're party as a result of personal misconduct then clearly it is not unknown for people to lose they're seats. Their are some who fight to retain it and suffer the consequences but people do lose their seats as a result of personal misconduct.
I believe qtman was only describing how things are rather than how they should be, i.e. elected representatives cannot be removed from their seat for personal wrongdoing that does not result in imprisonment. That is in the constitution.
What the consequences should be is another debate and you address it in your post - not that I agree with it one bit.

Yes, I agree that some reps 'lose' their seats as a result of personal misconduct. But where they resign, that is their own decision. It might be made under intense pressure and the knowledge that they wouldn't be reelected anyway (howaya, Liam Lawlor!) but it's still voluntary.

What you are proposing is automatic loss of seat for non-serious crime. I mention drink driving as "non-serious" not because I think it is a minor matter but because crimes without jail sentences aren't exactly serious offences. That would be something I disagree with as being very dangerous for all sorts of obvious reasons.

I think it would be much more consistent to call for drink driving (at least above a certain level of intoxication) to result in automatic jail sentences. That way, TDs would lose their seats anyway without having to create the precedent of some categories of crime resulting in loss of seat, regardless of whether imprisonment is the sanction.

Hope that makes sense. And by the way, they're = they are; their = possessive.
 

TheBear

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May 25, 2004
Messages
234
Don't forget:

There = pronoun.

Also, people have lost their party whip, and have resigned their seats, but you have yet to cite a case where someone lost their seat.
 
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
22
TheBear said:
Don't forget:

There = pronoun.

Also, people have lost their party whip, and have resigned their seats, but you have yet to cite a case where someone lost their seat.
If you've resigned your seat you've lost it.

I would go along with an automatic sentence in relation to drink driving over a certain level alright. Something similar to an earlier suggestion of an automatic 10day sentence.For PR's an automatic suspension loss of seat, by- election in relation to Dail Eireann but a chance to redeem yourself at the next election.That way it leaves a clear message to the electorate and it's PR's that Ireland is taking it's drink problem seriously.
In relation to McDaid he would be a bigger man if he stepped down, with Bertie backing him I think we look even more foolish as a nation.
 

TheBear

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May 25, 2004
Messages
234
There's a difference between losing something and giving it away. But that's a side-issue.

If you're going to insist on a by-election, but allow the person to run the next time around, then surely it'd be better to allow them to run in the by-election too. That way you could see if the electorate actually want them to lose their seat.
 

Mushroom

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Nov 27, 2009
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15,474
Good to see that one of Jim McDaid's strongest supporters in Donegal, Fianna Fáil Councillor Ciaran Brogan is doing his utmost to live up to the McDaid precedent!

"Donegal County Councillor charged with drink driving again"

Brogan's Wikipedia entry makes for good reading!

"Less than a week after becoming Cathaoirleach of Donegal County Council in 2016, Brogan was charged with a drink-driving offence for which he was later convicted and disqualified from driving for three years. The officer at the scene found a "strong smell" of alcohol from within his vehicle and Brogan verbally abused him, telling him "Who the f*** do you think you are?"
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Oct 12, 2009
Messages
33,086
Good to see that one of Jim McDaid's strongest supporters in Donegal, Fianna Fáil Councillor Ciaran Brogan is doing his utmost to live up to the McDaid precedent!

"Donegal County Councillor charged with drink driving again"

Brogan's Wikipedia entry makes for good reading!

"Less than a week after becoming Cathaoirleach of Donegal County Council in 2016, Brogan was charged with a drink-driving offence for which he was later convicted and disqualified from driving for three years. The officer at the scene found a "strong smell" of alcohol from within his vehicle and Brogan verbally abused him, telling him "Who the f*** do you think you are?"
The company is known to have received contracts worth more than €10 million.
A Northern Healy-Rae? The FFailures are truly back, aren't they? Well done Fg.
 

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