Job Security Has No Value

Pabilito

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It’s Official now: Job Security has no Value!

http://paycommission.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Report-of-the-Public-Service-Pay-Commission-May-2017.pdf


Tenure

Security of tenure has a value. However no satisfactory scientific evidence has been identified that could reasonably be used for assigning to it a specific monetary value. This is consistent with the findings of the Public Service Benchmarking Body in 2007 who considered it inappropriate to apply a further discount in respect of security of tenure.
 


Pabilito

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Economist Colm McCarthy on Pat Kenny just now described it as crazy..

Just because it’s difficult to value something doesn’t mean it’s value is zero.
 

JimmyFoley

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Moore McDowell said (on Late Debate last night) that there is a way: look at the value insurance companies put on such security!
 

Pabilito

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Moore McDowell said (on Late Debate last night) that there is a way: look at the value insurance companies put on such security!
Banks and mortgage providers place a huge value on job security.. It's effectively a benefit in kind.
 

Sister Mercedes

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In bond markets risk free us govt debt is much cheaper than debt you might not get repaid.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Yep. To say it's impossible to put any kind of value on it is bonkers.
But it serves a purpose...a nice way to fudge the actual value of a PS job.

The banks used to give a preferential rate to PS employees on loans because they were as safe as houses.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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It’s Official now: Job Security has no Value!

http://paycommission.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Report-of-the-Public-Service-Pay-Commission-May-2017.pdf


Tenure

Security of tenure has a value. However no satisfactory scientific evidence has been identified that could reasonably be used for assigning to it a specific monetary value. This is consistent with the findings of the Public Service Benchmarking Body in 2007 who considered it inappropriate to apply a further discount in respect of security of tenure.
This is fantastic news.

We have officially been given the green light to change all PS permanent positions to zero hour contracts.

As job security has no specific monetary value.

However lets not worry about a specific monetary value.


What payrise would be acceptable to PS workers to convert their permanent, secure positons to zero hour contracts?

Would it be 5,000 euro or less?

Would it be more than 5,000 euro but less than 50,000 euro?

Would it be more than 50,000 but less than 100,000 euro?

Would it be more than 100,000 but less than 250,000 euro?

Would it be more than 500,000 but less than 750,000 euro?

Would it be more than 750,00 but less than 1,000,000?

Would it be more than 1,000, 000 euro?

I would request that all permanent employees of either public or private on 50k or above to answer the above for research purposes.

I know it will not give us a 'specific monetary value' but it will give us a non specific monetary indicator of the perceived value of 'secure tenure'.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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This thread will sink like the titanic.

Our resident PS workers wont engage with it, nothing to see here, move along.

:D
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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The following members were appointed to the
Commission:
• Chairman - Kevin Duffy
• Marian Corcoran
• Ultan Courtney
• Ruth Curran
• Noel Dowling
• Seán Lyons
• Peter McLoone
 

Disillusioned democrat

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This thread will sink like the titanic.

Our resident PS workers wont engage with it, nothing to see here, move along.

:D
That's just it - logic and reason doesn't come in to it. The tax payer can huff and puff all they want, but there's no mechanism to argue, there's no forum to complain beyond this website, a few clever letters to the IT or a few calls to Joe Duffy.

The commission has spoken - no elected representatives among them, no referendum to agree a rate, just a happy government that gets to buy 300k votes with other peoples' money.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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The following members were appointed to the
Commission:
• Chairman - Kevin Duffy
• Marian Corcoran
• Ultan Courtney
• Ruth Curran
• Noel Dowling
• Seán Lyons
• Peter McLoone
FFS - I just checked out the website - bar one they're all public sector and/or union die hards. Who was there to represent the actual tax payer?????

Even the token capitalist was married to a public sector worker and lived off his/her exaggerated earnings for years.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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FFS - I just checked out the website - bar one they're all public sector and/or union die hards. Who was there to represent the actual tax payer?????

Even the token capitalist was married to a public sector worker and lived off his/her exaggerated earnings for years.
Of course.

Mugabe was teaching the Irish state....or, I fear, it was the other way 'round.
 

HarshBuzz

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Try telling the 300,000 who lost their jobs in 2008-12 that job security has no value.

Then start picking up your teeth.
 

Pabilito

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FFS - I just checked out the website - bar one they're all public sector and/or union die hards. Who was there to represent the actual tax payer?????

Even the token capitalist was married to a public sector worker and lived off his/her exaggerated earnings for years.
They cunningly crafted the wording where they say no “scientific evidence” exists to indicate that job security has a value.. however at the same time they don’t provide any “scientific evidence” for any of their other findings which benefit themselves.. where’s the “scientific evidence” for “pay restoration” and all the other goodies that the PS wish to pocket at the expense of the ordinary tax payer??

The narcissistic arrogance of this self appointed commission trumps Trump himself with their blatant conceit and smugness towards the Irish people they are supposed to serve.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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They cunningly crafted the wording where they say no “scientific evidence” exists to indicate that job security has a value.. however at the same time they don’t provide any “scientific evidence” for any of their other findings which benefit themselves.. where’s the “scientific evidence” for “pay restoration” and all the other goodies that the PS wish to pocket at the expense of the ordinary tax payer??

The narcissistic arrogance of this self appointed commission trumps Trump himself with their blatant conceit and smugness towards the Irish people they are supposed to serve.
The Irish people are hosts to this parasitic draw on the economy and future prosperity of the nation.
 

Pabilito

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5,703
This is fantastic news.

We have officially been given the green light to change all PS permanent positions to zero hour contracts.

As job security has no specific monetary value.

However lets not worry about a specific monetary value.


What payrise would be acceptable to PS workers to convert their permanent, secure positons to zero hour contracts?

Would it be 5,000 euro or less?

Would it be more than 5,000 euro but less than 50,000 euro?

Would it be more than 50,000 but less than 100,000 euro?

Would it be more than 100,000 but less than 250,000 euro?

Would it be more than 500,000 but less than 750,000 euro?

Would it be more than 750,00 but less than 1,000,000?

Would it be more than 1,000, 000 euro?

I would request that all permanent employees of either public or private on 50k or above to answer the above for research purposes.

I know it will not give us a 'specific monetary value' but it will give us a non specific monetary indicator of the perceived value of 'secure tenure'.
This can be the precedent for compulsory redundancies in the PS
 

Ireland is Different!

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I'm a PS worker but not a lifer having spent the 1st 10 years or so of my working life in various private sector orgs.
I see 100% job security in the PS as poison. You could pull a knife on the boss of your Dept and they'd just move you to a section with no knifes! Ok, I jest a little there but it's near nigh on impossible to get sacked. And that creates a blanket for a lot of workers to perform way below their best and treat the org as though it owes them a living.

I'd not be sad to see compulsory redundanices in the PS/CS. It woud really benefit the Orgs and the general public
 
Last edited:

SamsonS

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I'm a PS worker but not a lifer having spent the 1st 10 years or so of my working life in various private sector orgs.
I see 100% job security in the PS as poison. You could pull a knife on the boss of your Dept and they'd just move you to a section with no knifes! Ok, I jest a little there but it's near nigh on impossible to get sacked. And that creates a blanket for a lot of workers to perform way below their best and treat the org as though it owes them a living.

I'd not be sad to see compulsory redundanices in the PS/CS. It woud really benefit the Orgs and the general public
On your last point, never going to happen. Was a significant win for the unions back in 2010/11 that that policy was maintained. The price of that was to sacrifice their newest members.
 


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