Jobless told: train or work to keep dole

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UNEMPLOYED people who refuse to turn up for FAS training courses or interviews will lose up to a quarter of their weekly welfare payments, the Irish Independent has learned.
The unprecedented overhaul of the social welfare system includes a parallel plan to make the long-term jobless -- some of whom have completed training programmes -- carry out community work to get their dole.
The revelations came as the Government prepared to shave €860m off the welfare bill in next month's Budget.
As part of the crackdown, dole claimants on the top rate of €196 face losing as much as €46 from their weekly benefit, if they refuse work and training from FAS.
Only welfare claimants with genuine reasons for refusing FAS offers will be spared from having their payments cut:

  • Those on the lower rate of €153.60 for jobseeker's benefit will have their payment docked to €117.60.
  • Those between the ages of 18 and 21, who are on the reduced rate of €100, will see it fall further to €75.
  • Those aged between 22 and 24 will have their €150 rate reduced to €115.
Jobless told: train or work to keep dole - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

Disgusting.

The government hope to make savings of 860 Million by deducting money from the unemployed.

So they want this program to fail and pray and hope people fail to turn up so they can make savings.

Lets have a look at our unemployed, a good percentage of them are highly qualified people who have no use for a pathetic FAS course in learning how to operate Windows XP.

What use will picking up litter around the local area be to them? These jobs are best suited for our criminals in Jail who cost the state far more than someone unemployed.

Pathetic and spineless by the government, ignoring the real issue and doing whatever they can to fiddle the unemployment figures.

Edit: To correct my Billions to Millions. Millions Billions all seem the same now!
 
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Legacy

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Jobless told: train or work to keep dole - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

The government hope to make savings of 860 Billion by deducting money from the unemployed.
I think you meant 860 million

Anyway, I fully agree with you. Shades of the days when FAS were using bananas in place of telephone handsets come to mind :rolleyes: FAS are a corrupt operation. Thats already been proven and exposed by the media. To suggest that this organisation is left in charge of ensuring our unemployed 'productively' work for their dole or get trained in meaningful new skills is shameful and shows, once again, the level of corruption and arrogance within our political system.

Most of the external FAS consultant fees went to a handful of agencies who were in the control and pockets of Fianna Failers.. :mad: We have witnessed scandal after scandal with this Agency and what has been the Government's response so far? Split the operations of the Agency into three different Government departments - thereby ensuring the dilution of its questionable operations and making it more and more difficult to pinpoint the abuse and scandals of the future :mad:
 

Expose the lot of them

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Agree.

FAS is unfit for purpose and less than 25% of people who attended FAS courses got jobs as a resutl. Just 22.91 per cent of all 403,121 Fás graduates from 2005 until this year got employment at the end of their training. Fás trainees failing to get jobs - The Irish Times - Thu, Nov 25, 2010

FAS is unfit for purpose and should be disbanded, clearly the IMF are not aware of the levels of corruption, malpractice and incompetence that prevail in FAS.

Training must result in skills transfer and not some dodgy certificate issued by some "training provider" crony of the FAS staff and management.

Skills need to aligned to the needs of current and future jobs, this can only be done by establishing what skills exist within the workforce and the unemployed and without a skills database there is not point is "training". FAS staff cannot read a cv and worst still do not keep on file the cvs of those who register, an application form is completed which is a totally inappropriate and inadquate tool for recording the skills and experience of the "new" unemployed who are educated, skilled and experienced.

FAS staff have no idea how to deal with the "new" unemployed who have better skills and are better educated that the FAS frontline staff who have spent the last 10 years coasting along and taking inflated salaries for doing absolutely nothing.

The so-called clean up consisted of appointing a new Director General, who has absolutely no background or experience in the area of training or recruitment, however, coming from another quango, Failte Ireland, he has the right "cultural attitude" and will not rock the boat.

The (worthless) interactions that I have had with FAS have all been at my instigation, not social welfare and certainly not FAS. The message I received loud and clear was "FAS can do nothing for you".

The split between Education and Social Protection is nothing more than an exercise aimed had protecting FAS and its staff and will cost a fortune in "re-branding", new signs, letterhead, etc. The website is appalling and about as user "unfriendly" as it is possible.

Disband FAS, make all staff redundant with statutory redundancy only and no big pay offs. Recruit skilled and experienced professionals from the ranks of the unemployed, create a skills database and align the skills training needs with industry.
 

White Rose

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This should only kick in when unemployment goes below 8%. Don't see why somebody should get paid for doing nothing. What's wrong with cleaning up the local park?
 

Rebel_Yell

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Jobless told: train or work to keep dole - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

Disgusting.

The government hope to make savings of 860 Million by deducting money from the unemployed.

So they want this program to fail and pray and hope people fail to turn up so they can make savings.

Lets have a look at our unemployed, a good percentage of them are highly qualified people who have no use for a pathetic FAS course in learing how to operate Windows XP.

What use will picking up litter arounf the local area be to them? These jobs are best suited for our criminals in Jail who cost the state far more than someone unemployed.

Pathetic and spinless by the government, ignoring the real issue and doing whatever they can to fiddle the unemployment figures.

Edit: To correct my Billions to Millions. Millions Billions all seem the same now!
So if someone cannot show that they are actively seeking employment or retraining, they will not receive assistance. The barbarians!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with requiring that people are active during their period of unemployment.

Social projects allow people to remain active, maintain some self respect and contribute to their community. I would have no issue collecting litter if I were unemployed.
 

Freedom front

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This should only kick in when unemployment goes below 8%. Don't see why somebody should get paid for doing nothing. What's wrong with cleaning up the local park?
This should only kick in when there is job growth and jobs available for people to apply for, waste of money training people on outdated, redundant fas courses

The majority of people on the Dole were employed 2 years ago & want to work , the problem is no jobs, not training from FAS

The Minister must be Joking , could he not come up with a creative plan to get people back to work , not more FF BullSh1t
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Train with what? A crappy bunch of self serving bureaucrats? And where is the employment to begin with? There is no incentive anymore with entrepreneurs to set up and employ anyone as everything is rigged against you. Self employment is a possible avenue. But again thats only suitable for some people.

This political and feudal system needs complete renovation. 40 years ago there was a mixed economy with suitable employment for all and 1 wage per household sufficed. Today we have a dictatorship with a rapidly increasing number of serfs. Progress?
 

vanla sighs

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It's a pathetic, retrograde attempt at hitting the poorest and most vulnerable in society. There are 400,000+ unemployed (very likely to be more soon), there are not 400,000+ vacancies on FAS courses - and even if there were there are not then 400,000+ jobs to go to after doing such a course so it's back onto the dole!!! Ridiculous, stupid ill thought out plan.

As for forcing people to work for their dole, another pathetic, stupid (and I mean STUPID) idea. It is going to cost millions, or tens of millions or hundreds of millions to actually implement - another layer of management and expense, are these people f*cking stupid on purpose? Every single person doing such work will have to be insured at a cost of what, tens of millions, to the State? Using free labour will mean county councils etc won't have any incentive to employ people and over time it may actually displace jobs. Absolutely stupid idea.
 

White Rose

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This should only kick in when there is job growth and jobs available for people to apply for, waste of money training people on outdated, redundant fas courses

The majority of people on the Dole were employed 2 years ago & want to work , the problem is no jobs, not training from FAS

The Minister must be Joking , could he not come up with a creative plan to get people back to work , not more FF BullSh1t
I agree with all the comments about FAS. The only problem is we will have to replace it with something else and how long will that take? Maybe it could be reformed from within. My own (limited) experience with them is that they are trying to improve things
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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This should only kick in when unemployment goes below 8%. Don't see why somebody should get paid for doing nothing. What's wrong with cleaning up the local park?
Because we already pay people with intrinsic motives a wage to do that. This is a subsidy scheme for labour to do that and has a deflationary effect on a macro level and you are forcing someone who may have a passion for something else to do something that they do not want to do.

This is the symptom of the continuing statist misallocation of resources as they constantly keep the bailout of the banks for example.
 

Freedom front

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So if someone cannot show that they are actively seeking employment or retraining, they will not receive assistance. The barbarians!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with requiring that people are active during their period of unemployment.

Social projects allow people to remain active, maintain some self respect and contribute to their community. I would have no issue collecting litter if I were unemployed.

A initiative could be introduced to help solve the unemployment problem, why not introduce compulsory Job Sharing in the Public sector

The current Public Sector Employees go on the dole for 6 months and are replaced by unemployed people to do the jobs for 6 months and then we reverse for another 6 Months

We do this until we are out of the Recession / depression were in

Then we will be then sharing the pain
 

polarbear

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A initiative could be introduced to help solve the unemployment problem, why not introduce compulsory Job Sharing in the Public sector

The current Public Sector Employees go on the dole for 6 months and are replaced by unemployed people to do the jobs for 6 months and then we reverse for another 6 Months

We do this until we are out of the Recession / depression were in

Then we will be then sharing the pain
Dear God that's beyond stupid!:lol:
 

Legacy

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The plan follows recent legislation, RTE says, which gives the minister in charge of social measures the power to cut such payments, if those in receipt of social welfare “unreasonably refused” to participate in training courses organised by FÁS or the Department.
He added, however, that nurses ‘wouldn’t be sweeping the streets’ as a result of the plan
Minister will make jobseekers work for dole · TheJournal.ie

Isnt it comforting to know :mad: And this from the same man who told us recently on Highland Radio that we should pray for the economy!

Seems like the non believers amongst us can go swivel according to FF.
 

vanla sighs

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I agree with all the comments about FAS. The only problem is we will have to replace it with something else and how long will that take? Maybe it could be reformed from within. My own (limited) experience with them is that they are trying to improve things
Listen, all FAS or whoever comes after them will do is train people to do something they may not want to do or even be good at! FAS don't create jobs, FAS only train people for jobs that don't exist!
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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It's a pathetic, retrograde attempt at hitting the poorest and most vulnerable in society. There are 400,000+ unemployed (very likely to be more soon), there are not 400,000+ vacancies on FAS courses - and even if there were there are not then 400,000+ jobs to go to after doing such a course so it's back onto the dole!!! Ridiculous, stupid ill thought out plan.

As for forcing people to work for their dole, another pathetic, stupid (and I mean STUPID) idea. It is going to cost millions, or tens of millions or hundreds of millions to actually implement - another layer of management and expense, are these people f*cking stupid on purpose? Every single person doing such work will have to be insured at a cost of what, tens of million, to the State? Using free labour will mean county councils etc won't have any incentive to employ people and over time it may actually displace jobs. Absolutely stupid idea.
+1

The total figure is about 750,000 underemployed.

IMO, there should only need to be 1 job per household with anymore a lifestyle choice. Households are more complete and happy with 1 working and the other looking after the kids and the household budget etc.

Forcing people to work subsidises other wages and more than likely is not the area these people are good at.

Training and human capital resource management needs particularly for long termed unemployed to be done on a case by case basis, with psychologists dealing with the issue of motivating and nudging people into what they are good at.

Seen a documentary on Channel 4, where a former cognitive behavioural psychologist set up a human resource company which specialises in successfully providing employment in the right areas for long term unemployed people in very deprived areas in London.

FAS is a joke, a overpaid self serving quango that makes people worse off.
 
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Lets make one thing clear.

THE GOVERNMENT EXPECT AND WANT THIS TO FAIL

They plan to save 860 Million per year, they are just trying to make life as dificult as hell for people so they slip up and loose their claim.

If this was such a great idea and benefited the unemployed and the country this would cost the state money and not save the state money.
 

Sexual Harassment Panda

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This should only kick in when unemployment goes below 8%. Don't see why somebody should get paid for doing nothing. What's wrong with cleaning up the local park?
I'm un-employed and yeah, I agree. I wouldn't want to be doing it 40 hours of the week as I'm working on starting a business myself and I'm sure there are plenty who do put their time to good use. But 10 - 15 hours. 2 or so days wouldn't be too bad.

As for FAS I fully agree with the sentiment that welfare should be reduced if claimants are non-cooperative, but FAS is complete ************************************************. My father who is over 60, a trained carpenter who worked for 20 odd years as a foreman was offered 6 months factory training....

FAS is utterly broken and needs to just be shut down. It's all very well saying that we should reduce welfare for people who turn down training, but actually in reality the situation is more complicated. For instance, I could be sent off to do 8 weeks computer training tomorrow. I have a degree in programming. That would be 8 weeks of me doodling in my notepad bored out of my skull. Is that anymore useful to this country than me sitting at home?

FAS needs to be restructured. It's useless.
 

Freedom front

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Listen, all FAS or whoever comes after them will do is train people to do something they may not want to do or even be good at! FAS don't create jobs, FAS only train people for jobs that don't exist!
Agree , Abolish FAS save a Billion plus
 


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