John Glenn is dead



The Field Marshal

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Is risk perception subject to the perceiver?
There is no such thing as risk perception.
There is only CHANCE which has nothing at all to do with risk.
 

The Field Marshal

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Well Michael Collins did man the lunar orbiter so we did colinise space! ;)
Begobs now but is not just marvellous altogether what with the grand and mighty Irish name of Collins attached to it.
Yerra was not the entire Irish nation in spiritual communion with that lonely man as he circled the dark side of the moon totally on his own not knowing if his friends on the moon would ever return.
 

NYCKY

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I saw in the last few days that he had taken a turn for the worst, and at 95 that is not good.

In addition to his family, he led a great life of public service, soldier, astronaut, Senator, oldest man in space and even potential Vice President.

God Speed John Glenn.
 

derryman

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22 people have died whilst in a space craft. 536 have been in space. In otherwords you have a 1 in 24 chance of being killed. That is greater than soldiers on Obama beach on D-Day. Let's not pretend this job is easy.
No job is easy people do what they want to and are paid to do. Living is a risk all people die some young some old but all die. Not one side Glebelands person of the 536 boarded a craft without the firm belief that they would disembark it.
 

Toland

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No job is easy people do what they want to and are paid to do. Living is a risk all people die some young some old but all die. Not one side Glebelands person of the 536 boarded a craft without the firm belief that they would disembark it.
Yeah, pssshhhhhaaaaahh. That's what!
 

Polly Ticks

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Will humans ever colinise space.
Yes and no.

I don't think traditional humans, like you and I, will colonize space.

We're very much creatures of this earth...

So, put us in space away from the radiation protection and earth gravity and things fall apart pretty quickly... we suffer vision loss, bone density loss, and other effects of prolonged exposure to radiation and weightlessness.

Space could leave you blind, and scientists say they've finally figured out why - ScienceAlert

A mysterious syndrome has been impairing astronauts’ vision on the International Space Station, causing untreatable nearsightedness that lingers for months even after they’ve returned to Earth.

The problem is so bad that two-thirds of astronauts report having deteriorated eyesight after spending time in orbit. Now scientists say they finally have some answers - and it’s not looking good for our prospects of getting to Mars.

"Nobody’s gone two years with exposure to this, and the concern is that we’d have loss of vision," Dorit Donoviel from the US National Space Biomedical Research Institute told The Guardian. "That is catastrophic for an astronaut."
The researchers compared before and after brain scans from seven astronauts who had spent many months in the ISS, and compared them to nine astronauts who had just made short trips to and from the US space shuttle, which was decommissioned in 2011.

The one big difference between the two was that the long-duration astronauts had significantly more cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in their brains than the short-trip astronauts, and the researchers say this - not vascular fluid - is the cause of the vision loss.

Under normal circumstances, CSF is important for cushioning the brain and spinal cord, while also distributing nutrients around the body and helping to remove waste.

It can easily adjust to changes in pressure that our bodies experience when transitioning from lying down to sitting or standing, but in the constant microgravity of space, it starts to falter.
That's just one example.

So, I reckon we'll end up relying on the aul cyborgs... i.e humans fitted with intelligent devices that can take care of these physical problems that arise when people are in space for prolonged periods.

Hence, yes and no.
 

constitutionus

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its amazing when you look back at what his generation did.

they came so close to disaster several times. took real guts to do what he did. i mean when he did his flight they were still using 100% oxygen atmospheres in the capsules FFS.

REAL hero gone here.

RIP.
 
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No job is easy people do what they want to and are paid to do. Living is a risk all people die some young some old but all die. Not one side Glebelands person of the 536 boarded a craft without the firm belief that they would disembark it.
Are builders told specifically that despite every best effort of thousands of engineers there is yet a significant chance that they will die in the course of their duties?

Glenn was also a test pilot, where the job entailed not simply flying new aircraft but also pushing these new machines to the very limit of their abilities and beyond. If a plane was capable of an extra 10 mph or an extra two degrees in its angle of attack then that data might save lives when the plane went into service. This was all done under the constraints of the Cold War.

In that role Glenn's job was not simply to test the limits of the aircraft but in determining such limits to actually exceed them.

When you see the operating limits for an aircraft and read something as simple as the fact that it has an operating ceiling of X feet that simple figure means that someone has flown it to x plus a few thousand feet and has lost control.

32 astronauts were selected for Apollo. 3 died in a ground fire during the programme. Another 3 were very nearly lost.

To put it another way: Nixon had two speeches prepared in advance for the first Moon landing and for each of the subsequent missions. One for the event of a successful mission; the other for a failure.

Sounds like the building industry?
 

firefly123

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Begobs now but is not just marvellous altogether what with the grand and mighty Irish name of Collins attached to it.
Yerra was not the entire Irish nation in spiritual communion with that lonely man as he circled the dark side of the moon totally on his own not knowing if his friends on the moon would ever return.
You couldn't have had that go any further over your head if it had been strapped to a bloody rocket.
I'll give you a hint. It's not spelt colinise.
 

derryman

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Are builders told specifically that despite every best effort of thousands of engineers there is yet a significant chance that they will die in the course of their duties?

Glenn was also a test pilot, where the job entailed not simply flying new aircraft but also pushing these new machines to the very limit of their abilities and beyond. If a plane was capable of an extra 10 mph or an extra two degrees in its angle of attack then that data might save lives when the plane went into service. This was all done under the constraints of the Cold War.

In that role Glenn's job was not simply to test the limits of the aircraft but in determining such limits to actually exceed them.

When you see the operating limits for an aircraft and read something as simple as the fact that it has an operating ceiling of X feet that simple figure means that someone has flown it to x plus a few thousand feet and has lost control.

32 astronauts were selected for Apollo. 3 died in a ground fire during the programme. Another 3 were very nearly lost.

To put it another way: Nixon had two speeches prepared in advance for the first Moon landing and for each of the subsequent missions. One for the event of a successful mission; the other for a failure.

Sounds like the building industry?
No it doesn't sound like the building industry but it may sound like a boardroom meeting while discussing which corners to cut.
However it is not that I disparage the courage and endeavour of people like John Glenn. I do admire their fortitude . But I believe we are way to quick to raise special individuals to pedestals. Now truly what great benefit has the space industry and all the great fighter aircraft brought to mankind . Is humanity really better for it? Are people better housed better fed better cared for. I just think humanity has been poorly served by its need to idolise special people whose contribution to mankind is somewhat questionable. I believe the real heroes are the ordinary and mundane. The teachers the mothers the fathers the garbage collectors.the doctors the nurses shop keepers the factory workers the farmers and yes you guessed it the builders and all of the trades and professions within inc the bankers who help to finance growth. These ordinary people are responsible for the benefits and comforts that humanity lives and thrives on. Space travel.to date has been little more than an expensive sideshow that has delivered little real benefit to humanity. However God Rest the man I bear him no ill will.
 
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Catalpast

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No it doesn't sound like the building industry but it may sound like a boardroom meeting while discussing which corners to cut.
However it is not that I disparage the courage and endeavour of people like John Glenn. I do admire their fortitude . But I believe we are way to quick to raise special individuals to pedestals. Now truly what great benefit has the space industry and all the great fighter aircraft brought to mankind . Is humanity really better for it? Are people better housed better fed better cared for. I just think humanity has been poorly served by its need to idolise special people whose contribution to mankind is somewhat questionable. I believe the real heroes are the ordinary and mundane. The teachers the mothers the fathers the garbage collectors.the doctors the nurses shop keepers the factory workers the farmers and yes you guessed it the builders and all of the trades and professions within inc the bankers who help to finance growth. These ordinary people are responsible for the benefits and comforts that humanity lives and thrives on. Space travel.to date has been little more than an expensive sideshow that has delivered little real benefit to humanity. However God Rest the man I bear him no ill will.
Read The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe

That's the 1
 

The Field Marshal

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You couldn't have had that go any further over your head if it had been strapped to a bloody rocket.
I'll give you a hint. It's not spelt colinise.
I know.
Its beyond doubt though that our John was one of the Glenns of Antrim.

Funny that our tourist crowd never cashed in on that.
 
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No it doesn't sound like the building industry but it may sound like a boardroom meeting while discussing which corners to cut.
However it is not that I disparage the courage and endeavour of people like John Glenn. I do admire their fortitude . But I believe we are way to quick to raise special individuals to pedestals. Now truly what great benefit has the space industry and all the great fighter aircraft brought to mankind . Is humanity really better for it? Are people better housed better fed better cared for. I just think humanity has been poorly served by its need to idolise special people whose contribution to mankind is somewhat questionable. I believe the real heroes are the ordinary and mundane. The teachers the mothers the fathers the garbage collectors.the doctors the nurses shop keepers the factory workers the farmers and yes you guessed it the builders and all of the trades and professions within inc the bankers who help to finance growth. These ordinary people are responsible for the benefits and comforts that humanity lives and thrives on. Space travel.to date has been little more than an expensive sideshow that has delivered little real benefit to humanity. However God Rest the man I bear him no ill will.
The pace of delivery of systems such as JES was utterly accelerated by the space programme. Yup, you probably don't know about JES but it facilitates and speeds up practically every financial tranaction you have ever made in your life.
 

firefly123

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You had better give me a clue what it's about.

OK I Googled it. Is humanity really better for having faster and further flying craft?
Of course it is. Also the space industry is the reason you are able to communicate your brain farts to the world
 

gerhard dengler

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No it doesn't sound like the building industry but it may sound like a boardroom meeting while discussing which corners to cut.
However it is not that I disparage the courage and endeavour of people like John Glenn. I do admire their fortitude . But I believe we are way to quick to raise special individuals to pedestals. Now truly what great benefit has the space industry and all the great fighter aircraft brought to mankind . Is humanity really better for it? Are people better housed better fed better cared for. I just think humanity has been poorly served by its need to idolise special people whose contribution to mankind is somewhat questionable. I believe the real heroes are the ordinary and mundane. The teachers the mothers the fathers the garbage collectors.the doctors the nurses shop keepers the factory workers the farmers and yes you guessed it the builders and all of the trades and professions within inc the bankers who help to finance growth. These ordinary people are responsible for the benefits and comforts that humanity lives and thrives on. Space travel.to date has been little more than an expensive sideshow that has delivered little real benefit to humanity. However God Rest the man I bear him no ill will.
You raise the contention which has been contended since the start of the space race ie. have there been benefits derived from space exploration, and if there have been benefits have they been greater than the opportunity-cost?

I've no doubt that some benefits were derived. Only a curmudgeon would claim that no benefits accrued from space exploration.
Whether these benefits are greater than the cost / opportunity-cost, I don't know.

It would be very interesting to see if anyone has done a cost/benefit analysis, or an opportunity-cost / benefit analysis as regards the space race programme.

But you're right to highlight the fact that ordinary (mundane?) activities of everyday life are as important as the more esoteric activities of a smaller group of people.
 

firefly123

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You raise the contention which has been contended since the start of the space race ie. have there been benefits derived from space exploration, and if there have been benefits have they been greater than the opportunity-cost?

I've no doubt that some benefits were derived. Only a curmudgeon would claim that no benefits accrued from space exploration.
Whether these benefits are greater than the cost / opportunity-cost, I don't know.

It would be very interesting to see if anyone has done a cost/benefit analysis, or an opportunity-cost / benefit analysis as regards the space race programme.

But you're right to highlight the fact that ordinary (mundane?) activities of everyday life are as important as the more esoteric activities of a smaller group of people.
It's like being around in 15th century Spain and discussing the merits of ship building.
Humans have always explored and pushed outward. It is why we are on every part of the planet and it will be why we will eventually move off this rock too. The cost is miniscule. Tiny. Utterly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. As soon as there is money to be made space travel will grow exponentially.

Just because something is hard doesn't mean we quit. If that were true we'd still be on the edge of a wooded area in East africa
 
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