John Gormley says scale of Ireland's deficit is fault of previous administrations

goosebump

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you're letting them off the hook too easily.
Not to deflect from the FF/PD damage done in 2002-2007, but greens support of 2008 budget does indicate that they were happy for the party to continue and that if they had been in coalition with FF from 2002-2007, there would have been no difference in regards to where we are today.
We would be were we are today no matter what, because the electorate indicated in 3 General Elections that they wanted the party to continue, and no party who opposed that was ever going to be elected.

Everything up to and including Original Sin appears to be the fault of the Greens, but blaming them for Government economic policy in a period when they were in Opposition would appear to be stretching it a bit.
 


Asparagus

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We would be were we are today no matter what, because the electorate indicated in 3 General Elections that they wanted the party to continue, and no party who opposed that was ever going to be elected.

Everything up to and including Original Sin appears to be the fault of the Greens, but blaming them for Government economic policy in a period when they were in Opposition would appear to be stretching it a bit.
I blame eve for Original Sin (there was little else up to an including it that merits any blame)

I blame FF for the blowing the boom,

I blame FF and greens for blowing the recovery and initiating generational debt enslavement

oh and "We would be were we are today no matter what" is a stunning admission of green non influence in government economic policy by a green supporter.

Still some feckin stags got culled and i guess thats worth all the rest
 

jpc

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I blame eve for Original Sin (there was little else up to an including it that merits any blame)

I blame FF for the blowing the boom,

I blame FF and greens for blowing the recovery and initiating generational debt enslavement

oh and "We would be were we are today no matter what" is a stunning admission of green non influence in government economic policy by a green supporter.

Still some feckin stags got culled and i guess thats worth all the rest
So keep the party going with FF
Pretty amazing declaration of impotence all right.
 
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Libero

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goosebump said:
We would be were we are today no matter what, because the electorate indicated in 3 General Elections that they wanted the party to continue, and no party who opposed that was ever going to be elected.
Can you explain how a vote for Tommy Gombeen TD, king of the medical card representations, equals a considered endorsement of the government's pro-cyclical fiscal policies of 2001 onwards?

On the subject of stretching things a bit...
goosebump said:
Everything up to and including Original Sin appears to be the fault of the Greens, but blaming them for Government economic policy in a period when they were in Opposition would appear to be stretching it a bit.
But wasn't the opposition - all of it - complicit in the boom by not standing against it and warning of the dangers of overheating the economy in general and the property market in particular?

goosebump said:
the cold hard facts indicate that our deficit, and the cuts and tax rises it will give rise to, arise almost exclusively from Government policy between 2002-2007, in which public spending increases and tax cuts were made on the basis of unsustainable revenues arising from the property market.
You're right: that's how it arises.

Government policy was pro-cyclical, unwisely pumping money into and around the economy, at a time when it wasn't needed.

And now, thanks to the political decision to put the sovereign at risk for the losses of the banking sector, the fixing of exchequer deficit will be more pro-cyclical than it would otherwise be. All those promissory note obligations soak up a lot of fiscal capacity, making the retrenchment all the more brutal and self-defeating in terms of the effects on aggregate demand and national output.

For someone quick to blame the voters for supposedly encouraging pro-cyclical policy, you seem to have a blind spot regarding how the government's banking policy has its own wrenching pro-cyclical effects in a downturn.
 

Expatriot

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I agree that if Green policies were followed in many areas we would not have a problem. But I also think one of the biggest problems we have is the way we reacted to it. The taking on of all bank debt was simply the worst decision since 1922. There are two issues, the Greens are off the hook on one of them. At least the Greens can claim the banks mistake as an honest one if they ever get around to admitting it was a mistake and not "the only option". The corruption and greed of the past was not an honest mistake.
 

slx

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John, if you're reading this, and you truly believe that the problems are a result of decisions made by previous administrations then stop being a total hypocrite by keeping all of the people from those previous administrations IN GOVERNMENT!

Your Government is Fianna Fail + a former PD + support from the Greens.

How the hell is that any different from the previous two administrations where most of this damage was done?

The electorate do not buy this, most of the people who left the Green party do not buy this, in fact even the Fianna Fail back benchers are starting to get worried!

Stop feeding people this utter b/s!
 

Asparagus

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John, if you're reading this, and you truly believe that the problems are a result of decisions made by previous administrations then stop being a total hypocrite by keeping all of the people from those previous administrations IN GOVERNMENT!

Your Government is Fianna Fail + a former PD + support from the Greens.

How the hell is that any different from the previous two administrations where most of this damage was done?

The electorate do not buy this, most of the people who left the Green party do not buy this, in fact even the Fianna Fail back benchers are starting to get worried!

Stop feeding people this utter b/s!
Don't fool yourself

johngormley has no decency.

He's making hay and when this does finally get to an election all his hay will be in the barn.
 

Baron von Biffo

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He resigned as leader after the decision to enter government had been ratified by the Green convention
That's as may be but he was not leader when the Greens entered government so he kept his word.

Blame the Greens for ditching all their policies to gain the trappings of office but let's not waste time blaming them for something they didn't do.
 

GreenIsGood

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That's as may be but he was not leader when the Greens entered government so he kept his word.

Blame the Greens for ditching all their policies to gain the trappings of office but let's not waste time blaming them for something they didn't do.
Jesuitical nitpicking.

Let's just agree that people were cynically misled. And it went downhill from there.
 

goosebump

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He resigned as leader after the decision to enter government had been ratified by the Green convention
He said he would not lead them into Government, so why in God's name would he resign before they decided to go into Government?

FFS...
 

goosebump

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Can you explain how a vote for Tommy Gombeen TD, king of the medical card representations, equals a considered endorsement of the government's pro-cyclical fiscal policies of 2001 onwards?
Sorry, I forgot that your response to every reference to the electorate is that voters are idiots.

But wasn't the opposition - all of it - complicit in the boom by not standing against it and warning of the dangers of overheating the economy in general and the property market in particular?
That isn't my view. My view is that we'd still be where we are today if FG had led the last couple of Governments. That doesn't mean FG are complicit.
 

Oppenheimer

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2008 budget - passed on December 05, 2007, was the Greens first budget in power and was supported by the Greens.

This budget proposed to increase current expenditure by almost 2 billion.

If the Greens had asked for spending to be reigned in and a more prudent approach taken in this budget, then his claim that the deficit is a consequence of previous adminstrations would hold more water.

The fact is, in power, he and the Greens kept blowing up the bubble.
It takes much more inertia to get to the scale of deficit we have than can be caused in effectively three years. This deficit has been in the making since 2000-2001 and probably sooner. He is complicit in what has happened since 2007 BUT cannot be held responsible for the actions before this.
 

Toland

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The boom actually ended about 8 to 10 years ago. After that it was one giant pyramid scheme that drew in loads of suckers.
Somewhere a little before the turn of the millenium is when it ended. Possibly before that. The good ones (whose only real mistake was underestimating the tensile strength of whatever the material was that the bubble gum was made of) were predicting a hard landing from about then.
 

Libero

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goosebump said:
Sorry, I forgot that your response to every reference to the electorate is that voters are idiots.
Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track of that myself. But seeing as this is Politics.ie, with a powerful search facility and the ability to post links, and not supporting your assertion would blow your credibility clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question "Did Libero actually say that?" Well, did he, punk?
 

Asparagus

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Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track of that myself. But seeing as this is Politics.ie, with a powerful search facility and the ability to post links, and not supporting your assertion would blow your credibility clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question "Did Libero actually say that?" Well, did he, punk?
:D
 

HarshBuzz

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Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track of that myself. But seeing as this is Politics.ie, with a powerful search facility and the ability to post links, and not supporting your assertion would blow your credibility clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question "Did Libero actually say that?" Well, did he, punk?
very Clint-like of you Libero

but goosebump lost his credibility a looooong time ago when he predicted total Anglo losses at 5-6bn :p

or when he trumpeted the profits being made by the state on their banking 'investment' :rolleyes:

you get my drift, there's no shortage of material
 

OceanFrog

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goosebump lost his credibility a looooong time ago when he predicted total Anglo losses at 5-6bn

or when he trumpeted the profits being made by the state on their banking 'investment'

you get my drift, there's no shortage of material
No shortage of material indeed! Look at his post history for evidence of some the most outrageous rubbish ever posted on p.ie (and thats saying something!).

Goosebump is an apologist for the gombeens. Best to totally ignore him and his attempted trolling.
 

Hewson

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Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track of that myself. But seeing as this is Politics.ie, with a powerful search facility and the ability to post links, and not supporting your assertion would blow your credibility clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question "Did Libero actually say that?" Well, did he, punk?
Libero, you're unforgiven. For a few dollars more I'd classify you as a million dollar baby who got himself mixed up with the good, the bad and the ugly on a personal crusade to hang 'em high from the comfort of your Gran Torino.
 


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