John Kerry in breach of Logan Act?

Trainwreck

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On it's own, Americans of all political hues should be unnerved by this. The Left is going so crazy, they are willing to undermine every single democratic check and balance.

The Mueller "investigation. John Kerry out and about peddling US foreign policy. FBI agents actively trying to undermine the democratically elected President.

The Left is totally out of control.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/07/john-kerry-is-clearly-violating-the-logan-act/

The Boston Globe reports that Kerry in recent weeks has engaged in “unusual shadow diplomacy” to “apply pressure on the Trump administration from the outside,” holding meetings and phone calls “below the radar” with Iranian and European leaders.
 


Sync

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It's something to be examined (If not investigated at this point). If all he's doing is what's in that article (Exhorting foreign powers to meet the terms of an agreement the US is signed up to) then there's nothing there at all.

It can't be defeating the measures of the United States if he's just promoting the agreements the US are a party to. Even if Trump announces today he's leaving the agreement, I can't see how someone could be in violation of Logan by telling Iran "Maybe you shouldn't manufacture nukes".
 
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Levellers

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On it's own, Americans of all political hues should be unnerved by this. The Left is going so crazy, they are willing to undermine every single democratic check and balance.

The Mueller "investigation. John Kerry out and about peddling US foreign policy. FBI agents actively trying to undermine the democratically elected President.

The Left is totally out of control.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/07/john-kerry-is-clearly-violating-the-logan-act/
LOL:D

Good job Trump is not in hock to the Russians.
 

Trainwreck

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It's something to be examined (If not investigated at this point). If all he's doing is what's in that article (Exhorting foreign powers to meet the terms of an agreement the US is signed up to) then there's nothing there at all.

It can't be defeating the measures of the United States if he's just promoting the agreements the US are a party to. Even if Trump announces today he's leaving the agreement, I can't see how someone could be in violation of Logan by telling Iran "Maybe you shouldn't manufacture nukes".
At the very least it is pretty outrageous.


Let's imagine. It's 2025 and Trump has just finished his second successful term as President. President Oprah Winfrey is renegotiating Trump's Iranian denuclearisation deal, with lots of cash for the Mullahs and a softening of treaty requirements.

Trump goes on a global trip "Exhorting foreign powers to meet the terms of an agreement the US is signed up to" under his Presidency.



Your reaction...

Democrats reaction...

US media reaction...




Yep.
 

firefly123

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At the very least it is pretty outrageous.


Let's imagine. It's 2025 and Trump has just finished his second successful term as President. President Oprah Winfrey is renegotiating Trump's Iranian denuclearisation deal, with lots of cash for the Mullahs and a softening of treaty requirements.

Trump goes on a global trip "Exhorting foreign powers to meet the terms of an agreement the US is signed up to" under his Presidency.



Your reaction...

Democrats reaction...

US media reaction...




Yep.
I'd be surprised if trump was still alive by then to be honest
 

Sync

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It would be perfectly legal. Your OP is based on Kerry breaking the law and that it "Undermines every single democratic check and balance".

Donald Trump or John Kerry or any human being saying "Hi there X, it would be a great idea if you kept to this agreement both our countries are signed up to" is not illegal. It is not undermining democracy. It's asking people to stick to their commitments.
 

Trainwreck

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I'd be surprised if trump was still alive by then to be honest
So would I, to be honest. But if you haven't learned anything about him, surely you are starting to realise he does tend to disappoint people's' expectations.
 

Trainwreck

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It would be perfectly legal. Your OP is based on Kerry breaking the law and that it "Undermines every single democratic check and balance".

Donald Trump or John Kerry or any human being saying "Hi there X, it would be a great idea if you kept to this agreement both our countries are signed up to" is not illegal. It is not undermining democracy. It's asking people to stick to their commitments.

My OP is based on some reported facts. I then pose the question whether it is in breach of the Logan act. Do keep up chile'.


And you are remarkably quick out of the traps declaring "not guilty", when the salient, not currently disputed facts, describe a US citizen, discussing foreign policy with foreign governments.
 

Sync

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My OP is based on some reported facts. I then pose the question whether it is in breach of the Logan act. Do keep up chile'.
Well you say "peddling" which isn't the claim at all. They're also not reported facts. They're reports.

And you are remarkably quick out of the traps declaring "not guilty", when the salient, not currently disputed facts, describe a US citizen, discussing foreign policy with foreign governments.
I'm not saying he's "Not guilty". I'm saying it's not a crime. It's not a crime for a US citizen to discuss foreign policy with foreign governments.
 

Trainwreck

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Well you say "peddling" which isn't the claim at all. They're also not reported facts. They're reports.



I'm not saying he's "Not guilty". I'm saying it's not a crime. It's not a crime for a US citizen to discuss foreign policy with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.
Communicating with foreign governments? Yes.
Intent to influence measures or conduct of that foreign government? Yes (don't dare suggest otherwise)
To defeat measures of the United States? Yes (Trump is the United States, whether this causes Libtard tantrums or not)
 

jake76

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If Kerry has no official power, how can he be negotiating? He could be advising
 

luggage

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Communicating with foreign governments? Yes.
Intent to influence measures or conduct of that foreign government? Yes (don't dare suggest otherwise)
To defeat measures of the United States? Yes (Trump is the United States, whether this causes Libtard tantrums or not)[/QUOTE

A bit like what Jared Kushner was up to?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-ambassador-told-moscow-that-kushner-wanted-secret-communications-channel-with-kremlin/2017/05/26/520a14b4-422d-11e7-9869-bac8b446820a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8da07203b6c7
 

cyberianpan

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(1) The Logan Act is likely unconstitutional

(2) John Kerry is a spent force, hard to see him as claiming in negotiations that he represents the next US Government

Cyp
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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On it's own, Americans of all political hues should be unnerved by this. The Left is going so crazy, they are willing to undermine every single democratic check and balance.

The Mueller "investigation. John Kerry out and about peddling US foreign policy. FBI agents actively trying to undermine the democratically elected President.

The Left is totally out of control.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/07/john-kerry-is-clearly-violating-the-logan-act/
John Kerry 'left wing'....


:lol:
 

Trainwreck

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Communicating with foreign governments? Yes.
Intent to influence measures or conduct of that foreign government? Yes (don't dare suggest otherwise)
To defeat measures of the United States? Yes (Trump is the United States, whether this causes Libtard tantrums or not)[/QUOTE

A bit like what Jared Kushner was up to?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-ambassador-told-moscow-that-kushner-wanted-secret-communications-channel-with-kremlin/2017/05/26/520a14b4-422d-11e7-9869-bac8b446820a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8da07203b6c7

He was acting on behalf of - and in full knowledge of, as far as I know - the President elect. That doesn't come under the Logan Act.

And as you link explains, he was setting up communication lines, not "trying to influence".


So, no, I don' think that is a comparable example.
 

Dame_Enda

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The Logan Act should have an exemption for transitional administrations. Something like the Logan Act would be unthinkable in the EU. Even so yes if Kerry is negotiating that might violate the Act.
 

luggage

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He was acting on behalf of - and in full knowledge of, as far as I know - the President elect. That doesn't come under the Logan Act.

And as you link explains, he was setting up communication lines, not "trying to influence".


So, no, I don' think that is a comparable example.
You don't think setting up a channel without telling anyone is an issue? Really?

Obama administration officials say members of the Trump transition team never approached them about arranging a secure communications channel with their Russian contacts

Is John Kerry sneaking behind anybodies back? You do know he is the former Secretary of State.
 


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