• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.

Joining the Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

factual

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,723
A leading writer has come out today to argue that joining the Euro was a mistake as Sinn Féin astutely foresaw it would be.

Without saying "I told you so" Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose Euro membership and many of the arguments that Sinn Féin used were dismissed at the time but have come to be seen as true by people such as Cooper.

Basically we have given up our exchange rate--which prevents us from becoming competitive again without years of painful deflation. This one could take a long time folks and I am not happy at all about that despite Sinn Féin having been proven right. In the end as usual the least well off will suffer most from the downturn.

Cooper argues here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article4406818.ece
 


Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,257
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

factual said:
A leading writer has come out today to argue that joining the Euro was a mistake as Sinn Féin astutely foresaw it would be.

Without saying "I told you so" Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose Euro membership and many of the arguments that Sinn Féin used were dismissed at the time but have come to be seen as true by people such as Cooper.

Cooper argues here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article4406818.ece
Signing away our ability to control our own finanial affairs was a mind boggling piece of stupidity.

We seriously need to remake our relationship with Europe - as do the other smaller States.

The EU has to go.

Europa Conventus delenda est.
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Far be it for me to argue with you Factual. However, the news article is lacking in real depth and scope. Yes, we are out of step with regard to the monetary cycle with the many of the main economies of Europe. And, yes, setting our own interest rates would give us a greater degree of economic control in the short term.

The reality is that we are fundamentally tied to the Euro in so many ways now. The very stability of our economy is tied to the Euro. It's only perception but perception counts for alot when talking about currencies.

Once into the Euro club, it is not so easy to leave it. Historical analysis is a fine thing but we have to look towards the future. US multinationals use their bases in Ireland due to the Euro as it makes it easier for them to trade within the Eurozone; a very lucrative market. Irish lead companies will have to adopt the same strategy. Like it or not, this is the reality. Then you have to think about commodity prices. How much would oil cost in punts, etc.? How much would the cost of borrowing be in the international markets using the punt? How much impact would a high inerest rate punt have on the value of existing assets?

In short, the article is heavy on rhetoric and short on analysis.
 

Leftfemme22

Active member
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
216
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Catalpa said:
factual said:
A leading writer has come out today to argue that joining the Euro was a mistake as Sinn Féin astutely foresaw it would be.

Without saying "I told you so" Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose Euro membership and many of the arguments that Sinn Féin used were dismissed at the time but have come to be seen as true by people such as Cooper.

Cooper argues here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article4406818.ece
Signing away our ability to control our own finanial affairs was a mind boggling piece of stupidity.

We seriously need to remake our relationship with Europe - as do the other smaller States.

The EU has to go.

Europa Conventus delenda est.
Rabid nationalism sounds even more ridiculous in Latin.
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,257
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Leftfemme22 said:
Catalpa said:
factual said:
A leading writer has come out today to argue that joining the Euro was a mistake as Sinn Féin astutely foresaw it would be.

Without saying "I told you so" Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose Euro membership and many of the arguments that Sinn Féin used were dismissed at the time but have come to be seen as true by people such as Cooper.

Cooper argues here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article4406818.ece
Signing away our ability to control our own finanial affairs was a mind boggling piece of stupidity.

We seriously need to remake our relationship with Europe - as do the other smaller States.

The EU has to go.

Europa Conventus delenda est.
Rabid nationalism sounds even more ridiculous in Latin.
Rabid Internationalism sound stupid in any language! :roll:
 

Leftfemme22

Active member
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
216
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Catalpa said:
Leftfemme22 said:
Catalpa said:
factual said:
A leading writer has come out today to argue that joining the Euro was a mistake as Sinn Féin astutely foresaw it would be.

Without saying "I told you so" Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose Euro membership and many of the arguments that Sinn Féin used were dismissed at the time but have come to be seen as true by people such as Cooper.

Cooper argues here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article4406818.ece
Signing away our ability to control our own finanial affairs was a mind boggling piece of stupidity.

We seriously need to remake our relationship with Europe - as do the other smaller States.

The EU has to go.

Europa Conventus delenda est.
Rabid nationalism sounds even more ridiculous in Latin.
Rabid Internationalism sound stupid in any language! :roll:
My, thats some deep dark hole you must live in.

Do you not think it somewhat silly that a noted xenophobe like you would try to reinforce your idea by using a foreign language? One which oddly enough was a symbol of internationalism at its worst?
 

Oppenheimer

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
1,461
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

:| :roll: Another or these constantly repeated threads. I suppose superficial-journalism has a lot to answer for.

Plenty of stuff to trawl through on this here Time to reinstate the punt?
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,257
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Leftfemme22 said:
Catalpa said:
Leftfemme22 said:
Catalpa said:
factual said:
A leading writer has come out today to argue that joining the Euro was a mistake as Sinn Féin astutely foresaw it would be.

Without saying "I told you so" Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose Euro membership and many of the arguments that Sinn Féin used were dismissed at the time but have come to be seen as true by people such as Cooper.

Cooper argues here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article4406818.ece
Signing away our ability to control our own finanial affairs was a mind boggling piece of stupidity.

We seriously need to remake our relationship with Europe - as do the other smaller States.

The EU has to go.

Europa Conventus delenda est.
Rabid nationalism sounds even more ridiculous in Latin.
Rabid Internationalism sound stupid in any language! :roll:
My, thats some deep dark hole you must live in.

Do you not think it somewhat silly that a noted xenophobe like you would try to reinforce your idea by using a foreign language? One which oddly enough was a symbol of internationalism at its worst?
How is Latin a 'foreign' langauge to the Irish in a way that the English language is not? - it was used here for centuries before English was.

Do you actually know what a xenophobe is?

I think not.

Thats some deep dark hole you must live in. :?
 

kerrynorth

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Unfortunately Matt is hitting the wrong target here. The Euro of itself is not the problem, the problem is the failure of government to use fiscal policy in a way that complements the prevailing monetary policy rather than acts totally contrary to it. In short, as low ECB interest rates and an export accommodating exchange rate were aggressively over stimulating the economy not only should the government have not have been adding fuel to the fire with massive increases in public spending and cuts in taxation they should have increasing taxation and reigning in spending.

The economic failure we are now experiencing is a failure of economic management over the past decade. Not the Euro pre se.
 

Leftfemme22

Active member
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
216
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Catalpa said:
Leftfemme22 said:
Catalpa said:
Leftfemme22 said:
Catalpa said:
[quote="factual":2w3paj36]A leading writer has come out today to argue that joining the Euro was a mistake as Sinn Féin astutely foresaw it would be.

Without saying "I told you so" Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose Euro membership and many of the arguments that Sinn Féin used were dismissed at the time but have come to be seen as true by people such as Cooper.

Cooper argues here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article4406818.ece
Signing away our ability to control our own finanial affairs was a mind boggling piece of stupidity.

We seriously need to remake our relationship with Europe - as do the other smaller States.

The EU has to go.

Europa Conventus delenda est.
Rabid nationalism sounds even more ridiculous in Latin.
Rabid Internationalism sound stupid in any language! :roll:
My, thats some deep dark hole you must live in.

Do you not think it somewhat silly that a noted xenophobe like you would try to reinforce your idea by using a foreign language? One which oddly enough was a symbol of internationalism at its worst?
How is Latin a 'foreign' langauge to the Irish in a way that the English language is not? - it was used here for centuries before English was.

Do you actually know what a xenophobe is?

I think not.

Thats some deep dark hole you must live in. :?[/quote:2w3paj36]

Christ almighty, well then post in Irish and in Irish only.

The only people to use Latin here where the clergy, no-one else apart from a few elites where fluent, unlike English which is (like it of not) the tongue of the common man here.

Xenophobe: A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.


i.e You. Your posting track record is more than enough to highlight that obvious fact.
 

goosebump

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
4,940
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Another Sunday. Another British Newspaper. Another celebrity journalist telling us the EU is out to get us.
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

kerrynorth said:
Unfortunately Matt is hitting the wrong target here. The Euro of itself is not the problem, the problem is the failure of government to use fiscal policy in a way that complements the prevailing monetary policy rather than acts totally contrary to it. In short, as low ECB interest rates and an export accommodating exchange rate were aggressively over stimulating the economy not only should the government have not have been adding fuel to the fire with massive increases in public spending and cuts in taxation they should have increasing taxation and reigning in spending.

The economic failure we are now experiencing is a failure of economic management over the past decade. Not the Euro pre se.
Yeah, the government of the day had plenty of scope to battle the property hysteria bubble. However, I've been wondering if Ireland has to align it's economic/fiscal policy with that of say, Germany-France, in order to provide long term stability. Afterall, monetary policy is a major factor and we have to get into step with the current interest rate regime. I just wonder if its possible, or favourable, to "shadow" German fiscal policy. (I'm assuming that most ECB decisions will be taken with a view on the impacts of major economies as opposed to economies like Ireland where we contribute less than 1% to EU GDP.) Events in each country will not always move in lock step. I figure there will always be economic decrepancies within the EU where fiscal policy will remain Ireland's only alternative to correcting short to medium term irregularities.
 

factual

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,723
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

kerrynorth said:
Unfortunately Matt is hitting the wrong target here. The Euro of itself is not the problem, the problem is the failure of government to use fiscal policy in a way that complements the prevailing monetary policy rather than acts totally contrary to it. In short, as low ECB interest rates and an export accommodating exchange rate were aggressively over stimulating the economy not only should the government have not have been adding fuel to the fire with massive increases in public spending and cuts in taxation they should have increasing taxation and reigning in spending.

The economic failure we are now experiencing is a failure of economic management over the past decade. Not the Euro pre se.
But we have generally not used fiscal policy in this way. You cannot turn on and off motorway expenduture as befits the macroeconomic changes. Monetary policy is the best tool for countercyclical stabilization policy. And that tool we have thrown away (despite Sinn Féin's warnings, which have turned out true).
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,514
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

If we were lucky, we would end up with a currency like the New Zealand dollar, worth less than their neighbours. More likely, considering the way the property bubble was handled, we would end up like Uruguay or Argentina in previous years.
 
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
13
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

This is coming from the Murdoch Press, so its not surprising that we are seeing this kind of thing now.

Sinn Fein people should watch it. We're only a small step away from beng booted out of the eu( a league of equal nations) and into the arms of her Majestiy's sphere of influence. DO you want Irelands monetary decisions to be taken in London with NO influence? Didnt we already have that for a few centuries? You think Ireland big enough to have its own monetary policy on its own ? Maybe after we have a population of 20 million- need the immigration to be quadrupled so.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,683
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

huntergatherer said:
We're only a small step away from beng booted out of the eu( a league of equal nations) and into the arms of her Majestiy's sphere of influence. .
More scare mongering. On what do you base this? On reading the articles in the IT? We are not going to be booted out of the EU and even if we were there is nothing to suggest we'd be in her majesty's sphere of influence. Dare I mention yet again Iceland, Norway and the Swiss?
 

Corcaigh33

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
86
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Huntergatherer makes an important point, the love-bombing from UKIP, the Tories etc since we voted No is another worrying trend in the cultural and now economic re-colonisation. I did not have an issue moving to the Euro as money is money, I believe we joined an economic union so it made sense to facilitate that economic union to a greater extent. Leaving the EU membership debate aside however, the calls in the print media for a "serious debate" about our future in Europe need to be taken with bucket loads of salt. The O'Reilly Rags, the Oirish red-tops, the Oirish "broadsheets", the Sunday Times etc have all been pushing an editorial line in general which has seen the dilution and decay of Irish cultural sovereignty. More specifically on this issue there has been a very definite surge in euro-sceptic editorial positions being taken in the available print media. This is very much in keeping with the surge in euro-scepticism in England and is, in my opinion, the thin end of a wedge that would see a deeper economic synergy between Ireland and England going forward.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,683
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Corcaigh33 said:
I did not have an issue moving to the Euro as money is money, I believe we joined an economic union so it made sense to facilitate that economic union to a greater extent. .
That kind of naivety is what got us into the mess we are in. The board of directors of the ECB consists of 4 permanent members Germany, France,Italy and Spain. Do you think the situation in Ireland concersn them? Why should we let these people set our interest rates?
 

farnaby

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
1,930
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

How did he manage to write an article on the Euro and ECB control of interest rates without once mentioning control of inflation - which wasn't a major issue for us in the boom years, but is now in ireland and across the EU. If we had full control of monetary policy wouldn't inflation control be a priority? I.e. isn't the rise in interest rates currently, although painful, one of the right things to do for the Irish economy?
 

Halibut

Member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
17
Re: Joining th Euro "a Mistake"--Cooper

Romano Prodi (and I don't have the exact quote) stated
quite explicitely that the entire project was essentially
political in nature.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top