Joining the Euro - Anyone prepared to admit they were wrong?

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Jun 9, 2007
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First things first, this is not a blame the EU for our troubles thread - we made our own mess, the blame lies squarely with the governments in place between 1997 and 2007.

Is anyone who supported/voted for Ireland to joint the single European currency prepared to now admit that it was a bad idea? Britain has had similarly high levels of debt, engaged in many of the same mistakes we did including the ripping up of the regulatory rule-books, but there is no chance of the IMF going in there because their interest and exchange rate has been allowed to adjust accordingly, effective devaluation taking place, and so they stay above the water-line while we drown. We have no control, can not devalue, and thus are a hostage to events. Even membership of the Sterling area would provide us with more input and more control, given that the health of the Irish concern is of far more importance to the British than it is to a continent-wide organization of 27 countries. Thoughts?

Anyone prepared to admit that they were wrong? That one-size-fits-all is, and always was, an awful idea?...
 


Asparagus

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I thought it was a good idea at the time.

but then again i was a 3rd gen FF supporter who never asked questions..

Thankfully Bertie woke me up.

in retrospect it was lunacy for us -
Sheer lunacy.
 

Congalltee

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Would it be a wrong decision, if we had:

1) regulated the banks (Irish and non-national) properly.
2) kept current spending under control.
3) prevented a property bubble developing.
4) a proper system of accountability in Irish politics?

Blaming the Euro seems to be a cop-out. Though leaving it now, should be considered by the new government.
 

Ulster-Lad

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The Eurotrons on here will never admit it. They will also deny it is possible for us to get out of it.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
18,709
Would it be a wrong decision, if we had:

1) regulated the banks (Irish and non-national) properly.
2) kept current spending under control.
3) prevented a property bubble developing.
4) a proper system of accountability in Irish politics?

Blaming the Euro seems to be a cop-out. Though leaving it now, should be considered by the new government.

My VERY FIRST LINE in the OP makes it clear that I do NOT blame the EU or membership of the Euro for causing our difficulties. I blame our membership of the Euro for making the an atrocious problem an even more atrocious one. I also disagree, I don't think we CAN leave the Euro now, we have made our proverbial bed...
 

Tigris Celtica

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Ireland joining the Euro was absolute madness - As was allowing over a million economic migrants to flood into our country in less than a decade.

The result is now clear for all to see. We have been "governed" by moronic traitors.
 

jbourke

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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
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I thought it was a good idea at the time.

but then again i was a 3rd gen FF supporter who never asked questions..

Thankfully Bertie woke me up.

in retrospect it was lunacy for us -
Sheer lunacy.
Sounds sooooooo like me too! Worse still I went on to be a memebr of FF from 1996 to 2007, woke up to Bertie and FF in the lead up to that election when so many devout FG friends actually votaed for FF as they were scared into believing that only FF could manage the economy....as I tore at my hair and walked away.

Yes, I am ashamed to say that I am ashamed to have been a member of a party that idealism told me was right....and experience has shown me was dispicable :cry:
(the double shame...is reading the comhra of FF, it seemed like utopia!)
 

brughahaha

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Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
15,406
Would it be a wrong decision, if we had:

1) regulated the banks (Irish and non-national) properly.
2) kept current spending under control.
3) prevented a property bubble developing.
4) a proper system of accountability in Irish politics?

Blaming the Euro seems to be a cop-out. Though leaving it now, should be considered by the new government.
Yes it would
Because it was impossible to keep a property bubble from inflating in a growing economy (96-04) without fiscal independence ..as proved by the fact that no measures (bacon report anyone) were able to dampen house prices
The Euro (and ECB) make their decisions on the facts and figures coming from Germany and maybe France .... At a time we needed high interest rates to reduce the flow of money and dampen the property bubble (the favoured mechanism used to dampen inflation) the ECB was trying to drag a post unification Germany out of recession with cheap money (low interest rates ) ... fuelling our bubble no end
Sundering control of interest rates and the right to print money or devalue in our own national interest has been catastrophic for our economy

But dont expect any of the major political parties or social partners to agree .... they were full steam behind the idea ... as exhibited by the current refusal to discuss how we've effectively been railroaded into this bailout by Angela Merkel , the ECB and its powerplays
 
G

Gimpanzee

First things first, this is not a blame the EU for our troubles thread - we made our own mess, the blame lies squarely with the governments in place between 1997 and 2007.

Is anyone who supported/voted for Ireland to joint the single European currency prepared to now admit that it was a bad idea? Britain has had similarly high levels of debt, engaged in many of the same mistakes we did including the ripping up of the regulatory rule-books, but there is no chance of the IMF going in there because their interest and exchange rate has been allowed to adjust accordingly, effective devaluation taking place, and so they stay above the water-line while we drown. We have no control, can not devalue, and thus are a hostage to events. Even membership of the Sterling area would provide us with more input and more control, given that the health of the Irish concern is of far more importance to the British than it is to a continent-wide organization of 27 countries. Thoughts?

Anyone prepared to admit that they were wrong? That one-size-fits-all is, and always was, an awful idea?...
1) Devaulation is of no use when your root problem is due to borrowing money from the likes fo Germany

2) Britain did not indulge in the same scale of bubblemania and they never had 25% of their economy based on construction.

We had a fantastic tailwind for the first few years of the Euro. Instead of using it wisely, our crew put up the main sails, went to sleep and ploughed us straight into the cliff.

This wasn't inevitable. It was stupidity.
 

ergo2

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Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
14,067
as a small economy we are safer within the euro zone than outside it.
 

Yosser

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195
Sounds sooooooo like me too! Worse still I went on to be a memebr of FF from 1996 to 2007, woke up to Bertie and FF in the lead up to that election when so many devout FG friends actually votaed for FF as they were scared into believing that only FF could manage the economy....as I tore at my hair and walked away.

Yes, I am ashamed to say that I am ashamed to have been a member of a party that idealism told me was right....and experience has shown me was dispicable :cry:
(the double shame...is reading the comhra of FF, it seemed like utopia!)
So the party of Haughey,Lawlor,Flynn was good enough for you at one stage/ Some idealism there!The party that was and is steeped in corruption and you were happy to vote and no doubt the rest of your family. Well thanks.Tell you what,don't bother voting the next time.
Regarding the OP, corruption is our problem and people knowingly going along and voting for corrupt people. Not the Euro.
 
D

Dylan2010

Ireland didnt "have" to have this bubble, all property reliefs etc could have been done away with on the assumption that lower interest rates were coming and lending standards could have kept tight on the simple assumption that rising house prices is like standing up in a cinema or a football match. We are run by idiot politicians, idiot union leaders, idiot farmer groups etc etc. they'd have found a way to f**k it up somehow.
 

jbourke

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Jun 16, 2010
Messages
16
So the party of Haughey,Lawlor,Flynn was good enough for you at one stage/ Some idealism there!The party that was and is steeped in corruption and you were happy to vote and no doubt the rest of your family. Well thanks.Tell you what,don't bother voting the next time.
Regarding the OP, corruption is our problem and people knowingly going along and voting for corrupt people. Not the Euro.
Sorry that you don't like it Yosser, you've obviously never been youg and never thought that being involved meant you could bring about change...that's what idealism is, I joined before all the Haughey, Lawor & Flynn crap came to the fore, I joined what I felt...rightly or wrongly was the party of a 32 county Ireland to be brought about in a peaceful manner. Do you not remember 1996 and the Peace process?

You can have your opinion...but I will exercise my democratic right, to both see the light and vote for change.

How dare you!
 

imokyrok

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Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
4,490
as a small economy we are safer within the euro zone than outside it.
Absolutely. If we weren't in the Euro there would be no motivation to bail us out now. The EU could have let us sink. I bet they all wish we hadn't joined though.
 

Yosser

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Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
195
Sorry that you don't like it Yosser, you've obviously never been youg and never thought that being involved meant you could bring about change...that's what idealism is, I joined before all the Haughey, Lawor & Flynn crap came to the fore, I joined what I felt...rightly or wrongly was the party of a 32 county Ireland to be brought about in a peaceful manner. Do you not remember 1996 and the Peace process?

You can have your opinion...but I will exercise my democratic right, to both see the light and vote for change.

How dare you!
Well you go back a long way don't you.I could have gone back to De Valera.The barstool nationalism is FF's stock in trade.
I forgot Ray Burke as well and the list goes on.How dare I? Give me a break.
 

fluvius

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Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
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The Forint didn't stop the IMF having to bail out Hungary. Nor did the Krona save Iceland. What makes you think that the Punt would have saved Ireland?
 

jbourke

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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
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Apologies that this is going off topic, but idocy like this has to be questioned:

Well you go back a long way don't you.I could have gone back to De Valera.The barstool nationalism is FF's stock in trade.
I forgot Ray Burke as well and the list goes on.How dare I? Give me a break.
No, I'm not going back a long way, I'm simply alluding to the type of reason many young people joined FF growing up.

If we follow your logic so, does that mean that anybody who was ever a member of FF, despite clearly stating they no longer are, have seen the light and will never vote for them again....should not vote?

Sorry mate, I'm not the enemy, despite the voices in your head!
 


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